I'm now listening to flatcone W4-1996SB
Tang Band W4-1996 - Lautsprecherbau von blue planet acoustic
Captivator Bausatz - Lautsprecherbau von blue planet acoustic
my midbasses are on the floor, active crossover at about 200Hz, it's quick and dirty, as obvious from the picture
they need time to break in, its immense change afterwards, they have at the begining hyper metalic sizzle but afterwards they start to project sound in 4D
but the 3" I think are slightly better in imaging/creating those dimension
I have Alpair 7 and many other Drivers, but I think no other Widerange or Fullrange can make what TB Flatcones can, it's another experience of sound, it's hyper holographic dimension
those TB's and Coral Flat 5II are one of my favourites
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Thanks for your suggestion, Dyna. The W4-1996SB does not show up on Tang Band's website as a valid product number. However, the spec sheet on that website you linked to shows a model number of W4-1757SB which I suspect is correct. http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w4-1757sb.htm
Now the question is, which is better for HT dialog clarity, the Tang Band W4-1757SB or Markaudio Alpair 7.3. Anyone have a second opinion on this? Dyna is voting for the TB..... anyone?
@Ben, it's a new driver, maybe TB has not published specs yet...
@zman01 your'e right, I would add to this one more thing- immense and palpable high frequency...
Alpair are super drivers, as many other widerangers, but, as I said, flatcone has no competition in those aspects
PS: I can't imagine a better loudspeakers for home theater
@zman01 your'e right, I would add to this one more thing- immense and palpable high frequency...
Alpair are super drivers, as many other widerangers, but, as I said, flatcone has no competition in those aspects
PS: I can't imagine a better loudspeakers for home theater
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I'm really interested in the Tang Band 'flatcones,' but I'm guessing they won't play down to 100 Hz. What's your experience around that? Do you have to use a conventional woofer with these in a 2-way with a crossover or can you run them full range and just cross to a subwoofer at 100 Hz?
I say this because, in the threads I have been able to find, people seem to want to cross these (even the 4") at 300 Hz or something like that.
I think the commercial speaker that uses the twin 3" flatcones crosses over at 1000 Hz to the side midwoofers.
Following the point in post 1 regarding 'bottoming out' of the driver with the infrabass rubbish on many films, eg Star trek. Ive found that particular film causes most of mxm speakers to come uncomfortably close to cone slap. These are 5inch and 6inch 2ways with F3s alot better than many FR drivers. High passing of the sats is essential, whatever driver you choose, and regardless of driver suggestions touted here. All the drivers suggested here would work well, but im inclined to think that to get the best out of them, a high pass is absolutely necessary. Let the sub tolerate the <20hz noise.
I'm 100% with you on that. I'm just wondering if some of these drivers could even tolerate 100 Hz noise.
I use TB W3 1285SG with Fs of 100hz. Now these things quote 0.5mm xmax, but mech limits are way more, perhaps 8mm pk to pk. They can handle 100hz alone at a good volume, but blast them and mids get dirty. High passing and or a QB5 vented or QB3 sealed with cap chosen correctly MAY be ok. Personally a high pass IS needed and a steep one, if cinema like levels are desired. Other more efficient drivers like Fostex gain in that area, only to lose it again due to xmax limits. My best guess: 120hy with low order HP = yes. 100hz perhaps. 80hz cat in hells chance.
As is often quoted, there should be at least an octave of safe usable response beyond crossover. i.e. A driver that will run flat to 50hz would be safe HP'd at 100hz.
As is often quoted, there should be at least an octave of safe usable response beyond crossover. i.e. A driver that will run flat to 50hz would be safe HP'd at 100hz.
+1
+1 again
though the 2 and a bit octaves below the cut off are very significant. In short i believe a 2nd order hp electrical is not enough, even if the acoustic slope is 4th order.Ive crossed my W3s at 200hz 2nd order elec, and this seemed ok combined with the 2nd order sealed roll off. If i were to cross @ 100hz id go 4th order despite possible sub integration difficulties.
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they have 3mm xmax, maybe they could go down to 100Hz, but I personaly wouldn't do it because the sound is then not real in size, there is no fundament as in reality, it's just a 4" driver...
if you want flatcone then 3" combined with midbass is the real deal
yes, Boenicke SLS crosses at 1000Hz 6dB per octave, and uses Monacor SPH176 sidefiring with no crossover because of oldschool rollof...
So the 3" is out, unless I make a 2-way design. I'll think about that, but it's outside the purview of this thread.
My receiver has crossover points at 80, 100, 150 and 200 Hz. I'm thinking that the 150 or 200 settings would cause the subwoofer to produce localized sounds, which is undesirable due to only having one sub off in the corner.
So, options I'm considering are:
Tang Band 4" flat cone W4-1757SB or W4-1996SB (that second one would cost a fortune to get it to the US, the first one is available from PE reasonably - much difference between them?);
Markaudio A7.3;
Markaudio A10.2.
As far as boxes, I'd be tempted to make any of them a slot ported design rather than sealed because I might need to use any speaker I build by themselves sans subwoofer for music someday - I tend to keep speakers a long time. But for use in the HT a sealed design would probably be fine, especially for the A10.2 if I go that way. The -3 is about 93 Hz on the A7.2 in a sealed box so that could work too, but not that great for 2 CH music systems without a sub.
Quick and dirty numbers... A7.3:
6.4 liter sealed = Qtc of 0.71 and F3 of 93 Hz. The question is, would it sound too thin in room in the 100 Hz to 300 Hz area.
My receiver has crossover points at 80, 100, 150 and 200 Hz. I'm thinking that the 150 or 200 settings would cause the subwoofer to produce localized sounds, which is undesirable due to only having one sub off in the corner.
So, options I'm considering are:
Tang Band 4" flat cone W4-1757SB or W4-1996SB (that second one would cost a fortune to get it to the US, the first one is available from PE reasonably - much difference between them?);
Markaudio A7.3;
Markaudio A10.2.
As far as boxes, I'd be tempted to make any of them a slot ported design rather than sealed because I might need to use any speaker I build by themselves sans subwoofer for music someday - I tend to keep speakers a long time. But for use in the HT a sealed design would probably be fine, especially for the A10.2 if I go that way. The -3 is about 93 Hz on the A7.2 in a sealed box so that could work too, but not that great for 2 CH music systems without a sub.
Quick and dirty numbers... A7.3:
6.4 liter sealed = Qtc of 0.71 and F3 of 93 Hz. The question is, would it sound too thin in room in the 100 Hz to 300 Hz area.
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Agreed, however, as this is for HT, and volume levels are adjusted for dialog, I find that FX peaks can be quite demanding.
Try, for example, adjusting the system for the dialog at the beginning of Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan and letting it play through the beach landing scene at the same volume......
So, that's why I'm thinking, for a full range single drive system for HT, 4" and up..... or else retreat back to the two-way forums.
Pretty sure having no crossover 100-20K would be the best for coherency though! That's why I'm here.
Hi Norman, Thanks... but what does that mean?
I'm talking about the benefits of having no crossover in all but the sub base range....
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