I assume you mean the Fostex FE108EZ 4". My understanding is that the Alpair 10 Gen2 is a bit larger driver. Do you think that extra inch or two would help dynamics?
Has anyone compared the FE108EZ with the A10.2?
Thanks for the recommendation.
Neat! Care to share details about which helper tweeter you chose and what high pass network components you used? I might have a hard time fitting that onto a 10" high baffle though.
Eheheheheh. He asked for the best, he should just get a bunch of Feastrex drivers for his 5.1 surround system.
Hilarious! I did not even know raw drivers that expensive existed. I guess with the growing DIY movement, the high end guys had to put out something with a better margin to stay in business.
Well I'm using a 12" baffle but if you flip it onto its side it will be a 7.5" (which is less than 10"). I needed a low crossover point to completely get rid of the upper midrange dip, so it's not a helper tweeter but a full LR2 crossover network with a Seas 27TDFC:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Oh! I see... it is a 2-way. Well, I really do appreciate details on your design, it looks great! However, as this is the full range forum, I'll start a new thread in the appropriate section if I decide to build another 2-way design and have any questions. Congrats again on the great looking (and sounding, I wager) speaker there.
I assume you mean the Fostex FE108EZ 4". My understanding is that the Alpair 10 Gen2 is a bit larger driver. Do you think that extra inch or two would help dynamics?
Has anyone compared the FE108EZ with the A10.2?
Thanks for the recommendation.
Yes I was referring to the FE 108 EZ and was only comparing it to the fostex 166FE for its more balanced tone. The added cone area of the bigger Alpair would certainly help if you want to cross the woofer at a lower frequency, but it can be logically compared to the similar cone area of the Fostex FE 166, that also has higher efficiency and extended high end at lower cost.
If using such a detailed crossover, why not just use a 6" mid bass woofer, as in a bookshelf speaker, that would also extend lower
This.
Is there any full range driver that can equal that level of clarity without a tweeter?
....Or, is the A10.2 the best we can do without a second driver, given the requirements in the OP?
Alpair 7.x. It would likely need to be in a vented enclosure. You would also have a smaller cabinet.
Adding a tweeter with an XO right in the critical band, when the driver has a perfectly satisfactory top end (especially for movies) seems a step backwards to me. What you lose is in my opionion much greater than you gain.
dave
Adding a tweeter with an XO right in the critical band, when the driver has a perfectly satisfactory top end (especially for movies) seems a step backwards to me. What you lose is in my opionion much greater than you gain.
dave
HT receiver's XO points are at 110 for the front row, and 120 for the surrounds. Dual corner woofer enclosures with Eastech 7" woofers.
Yes, I know I still need to tidy up the install
Mains are Pensil 7 MLTL (floorstanders) , the centre is slot vented (approx 8-9liter?) something I think Dave calls dMarKen7 C, rears are 6.2 Ms in teeny little sealed box. To my 60+yr ears, and IINM a few much younger, neither the 6s or 7s are mushy with rolled off highs.
Yes, I've heard all of the Fostex drivers you've listed and a few more, in a variety of enclosure types - for me they didn't quite cut it for HT application. The Alpairs were at hand and I wanted to try them out - they worked - end of story
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Chiming in...
Sounaatma,
The Alp 7.3 HF is well extended and very smooth. I've listened to the Fostex FE166EN also, and frankly speaking, HF dispersion and extension is much superior for the Alpair; midrange clarity and detail of the Alp 7.3 is also superb - lot of resolution and low level details without any noticable shout (with the Fostex there is the characteristic forward presentation with the peak around possibly 5-7KHz - some folks don't like that at all). Also seemed to me that the Alp 7.3 was more amp friendly - sounded good with both Class D and tube amps, while the Fostex loved the Miniwatt N3 tubeamp mostly.
Understand that OP wants to run the boxes sealed, but not sure if the Alp 7.3 will go that low sealed in a smallish enclosure. They should work nicely in Dave's Ken boxes as front and centre bookshelf speakers though - clear midrange and tight, articulate bass.
Sounaatma,
The Alp 7.3 HF is well extended and very smooth. I've listened to the Fostex FE166EN also, and frankly speaking, HF dispersion and extension is much superior for the Alpair; midrange clarity and detail of the Alp 7.3 is also superb - lot of resolution and low level details without any noticable shout (with the Fostex there is the characteristic forward presentation with the peak around possibly 5-7KHz - some folks don't like that at all). Also seemed to me that the Alp 7.3 was more amp friendly - sounded good with both Class D and tube amps, while the Fostex loved the Miniwatt N3 tubeamp mostly.
Understand that OP wants to run the boxes sealed, but not sure if the Alp 7.3 will go that low sealed in a smallish enclosure. They should work nicely in Dave's Ken boxes as front and centre bookshelf speakers though - clear midrange and tight, articulate bass.
I've only ever used the 7.3 in vented or BLH enclosures, the 6Ms in small sealed.
Perhaps the OP's could be persuaded to consider other than sealed? Many of the category of drivers suggested so far work very well in vented enclosures.
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From the last two posts, I gather that the A7.3 is the way to go.
Nice room by the way, Chris.
Zman mentioned that the A7.3 might not have enough output down low in a small sealed cabinet. Would a small bass reflex cabinet work better?
Remember, I can set the crossover to 80, 100 or 120 Hz.
How is that center channel on loud action films, Chris? Any distortion or crackling from hitting the end stops? ....It looks about the closest in size to what I'm thinking of building.
However, loud is relative, as one can only stand so much volume in a small room such as the one these will go in. I just want to be sure the system has some headroom for the films with exceptionally loud FX sounds, as the system will play films of all genres.
Nice room by the way, Chris.
Zman mentioned that the A7.3 might not have enough output down low in a small sealed cabinet. Would a small bass reflex cabinet work better?
Remember, I can set the crossover to 80, 100 or 120 Hz.
How is that center channel on loud action films, Chris? Any distortion or crackling from hitting the end stops? ....It looks about the closest in size to what I'm thinking of building.
However, loud is relative, as one can only stand so much volume in a small room such as the one these will go in. I just want to be sure the system has some headroom for the films with exceptionally loud FX sounds, as the system will play films of all genres.
As noted elsewhere, I've only ever used or heard the larger Alpairs ( 7 & up) in ported or BLH enclosures - I personally prefer slot vented or MLTLs to any BR I've yet heard, but that's just me.
I don't listen loud enough to tax the system (hardly exceed 96 on peaks), so I'm not the best to advise on testing their limits. I'm sure that others would find my listening levels too tame, and would be tempted to "give 'er" past this system's SOA.
The room is approx 420ft^2, with main listening position approx 10ft from screen.
I'd feel uncomfortable asserting that this type of system could survive exceptionally loud FX sounds - even if XO'd high enough that most of the real grunt work was handled by the LFE channel's woofers.
The 10.2s, I'd be less cautious about.
I'm thinking that, due to the size of the room (~ 130 ft^2), the A7.3 might be OK, even given Chris's caution. With the speakers being relatively near field (~8 ft.) to the listeners, the volume levels would be likely lower to sound 'loud' than in most rooms.
If anyone thinks I'll run into problems please say so. Otherwise, I guess I'll be starting a build thread in the future for the proposed box design and so on.
Thanks again to all!
If anyone thinks I'll run into problems please say so. Otherwise, I guess I'll be starting a build thread in the future for the proposed box design and so on.
Thanks again to all!
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Well, me...personally, I would go with the larger cone. More radiating surface equals less Doppler effect in strong bass and mid bass passages.
I also prefer a sealed enclosure, especially if the BR alignment is above 40 hz.
Actually an aperiodic vent is best IMO.
The 10.2 will sound effortless (less distortion)
Also, a sealed enclosure is much easier to model and build. And if you go with an aperiodic vent, the box can be even smaller, and you will avoid some excitation of the box walls.
So yeah, model the 10.2 for a qtc of .9, configure the vent for a qtc of .707 (your box should be about 1/3 the size of a sealed butterworth alignment)
Now you have a tiny mini monitor that will get down to about 70Hz and it will really blow your hair back!
I also prefer a sealed enclosure, especially if the BR alignment is above 40 hz.
Actually an aperiodic vent is best IMO.
The 10.2 will sound effortless (less distortion)
Also, a sealed enclosure is much easier to model and build. And if you go with an aperiodic vent, the box can be even smaller, and you will avoid some excitation of the box walls.
So yeah, model the 10.2 for a qtc of .9, configure the vent for a qtc of .707 (your box should be about 1/3 the size of a sealed butterworth alignment)
Now you have a tiny mini monitor that will get down to about 70Hz and it will really blow your hair back!
Thanks Melo.....
Since we are already talking about box design, I came up with a quick and dirty one for the A7.3 as follows:
Volume: 0.25 ft^3
Tuning: 65 Hz
Inside Dims: 8.5 x 6 x 8.5 in (HxWxD)
Vent: Slot 0.5" x 6" x 5.13" length @ mach 0.04
-3 dB at about 57 Hz.
3/4" thick MDF box with veneer on both sides and coated with borosilicate internally and stuffed with sheep's wool.
I'm also considering a solid hardwood box - I am pretty sure I can do it in layers - would be interesting and unique.
With the above rough design in mind, along with the promises of additional midrange detail (which I do want for vocal clarity) on the A7, and the likely crossover at, say, 100 Hz, do you still think the A10 is the better choice?
Since we are already talking about box design, I came up with a quick and dirty one for the A7.3 as follows:
Volume: 0.25 ft^3
Tuning: 65 Hz
Inside Dims: 8.5 x 6 x 8.5 in (HxWxD)
Vent: Slot 0.5" x 6" x 5.13" length @ mach 0.04
-3 dB at about 57 Hz.
3/4" thick MDF box with veneer on both sides and coated with borosilicate internally and stuffed with sheep's wool.
I'm also considering a solid hardwood box - I am pretty sure I can do it in layers - would be interesting and unique.
With the above rough design in mind, along with the promises of additional midrange detail (which I do want for vocal clarity) on the A7, and the likely crossover at, say, 100 Hz, do you still think the A10 is the better choice?
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I've been thinking about doing something similar but using BMR drivers instead of traditional fullrangers.
For me, off axis performance is key as we have two couches to cover (one opposite the monitor, the other to one side). I've also played around with NXT surrounds and like the diffuse sound field they produce. BMRs would seem to offer more of the same, with less compromises.
I'm (rightly or wrongly) not that bothered about driver frequency response as long as 100-20000hz is covered without massive resonant peaks and troughs, and the power handling and distortion allow for some eq to be used effectively. My receiver has audyssey processing so will iron out driver+cabinet+room response anomalies to a degree.
A cheap experiment would be five of these in basic cabinets: http://www.hi-wave.com/downloads/datasheets/DS-HIBM36S12-8A.pdf
But this is all just curiosity on my part, so unless you want an experiment that might fail I'd stick with the excellent fostex and mark audio recommendations.
For me, off axis performance is key as we have two couches to cover (one opposite the monitor, the other to one side). I've also played around with NXT surrounds and like the diffuse sound field they produce. BMRs would seem to offer more of the same, with less compromises.
I'm (rightly or wrongly) not that bothered about driver frequency response as long as 100-20000hz is covered without massive resonant peaks and troughs, and the power handling and distortion allow for some eq to be used effectively. My receiver has audyssey processing so will iron out driver+cabinet+room response anomalies to a degree.
A cheap experiment would be five of these in basic cabinets: http://www.hi-wave.com/downloads/datasheets/DS-HIBM36S12-8A.pdf
But this is all just curiosity on my part, so unless you want an experiment that might fail I'd stick with the excellent fostex and mark audio recommendations.
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