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Old 8th November 2012, 09:02 AM   #71
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I'm 100% with you on that. I'm just wondering if some of these drivers could even tolerate 100 Hz noise.
+1
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Old 8th November 2012, 10:54 AM   #72
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+1
+1 again though the 2 and a bit octaves below the cut off are very significant. In short i believe a 2nd order hp electrical is not enough, even if the acoustic slope is 4th order.

Ive crossed my W3s at 200hz 2nd order elec, and this seemed ok combined with the 2nd order sealed roll off. If i were to cross @ 100hz id go 4th order despite possible sub integration difficulties.
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Old 8th November 2012, 11:56 AM   #73
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I'm really interested in the Tang Band 'flatcones,' but I'm guessing they won't play down to 100 Hz. What's your experience around that? Do you have to use a conventional woofer with these in a 2-way with a crossover or can you run them full range and just cross to a subwoofer at 100 Hz?

I say this because, in the threads I have been able to find, people seem to want to cross these (even the 4") at 300 Hz or something like that.

I think the commercial speaker that uses the twin 3" flatcones crosses over at 1000 Hz to the side midwoofers.
they have 3mm xmax, maybe they could go down to 100Hz, but I personaly wouldn't do it because the sound is then not real in size, there is no fundament as in reality, it's just a 4" driver...

if you want flatcone then 3" combined with midbass is the real deal

yes, Boenicke SLS crosses at 1000Hz 6dB per octave, and uses Monacor SPH176 sidefiring with no crossover because of oldschool rollof...
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Old 8th November 2012, 05:08 PM   #74
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+1 i.e. The 3" is down 18db at 125hz.
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Old 8th November 2012, 09:36 PM   #75
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So the 3" is out, unless I make a 2-way design. I'll think about that, but it's outside the purview of this thread.

My receiver has crossover points at 80, 100, 150 and 200 Hz. I'm thinking that the 150 or 200 settings would cause the subwoofer to produce localized sounds, which is undesirable due to only having one sub off in the corner.

So, options I'm considering are:

Tang Band 4" flat cone W4-1757SB or W4-1996SB (that second one would cost a fortune to get it to the US, the first one is available from PE reasonably - much difference between them?);

Markaudio A7.3;

Markaudio A10.2.

As far as boxes, I'd be tempted to make any of them a slot ported design rather than sealed because I might need to use any speaker I build by themselves sans subwoofer for music someday - I tend to keep speakers a long time. But for use in the HT a sealed design would probably be fine, especially for the A10.2 if I go that way. The -3 is about 93 Hz on the A7.2 in a sealed box so that could work too, but not that great for 2 CH music systems without a sub.

Quick and dirty numbers... A7.3:

6.4 liter sealed = Qtc of 0.71 and F3 of 93 Hz. The question is, would it sound too thin in room in the 100 Hz to 300 Hz area.

Last edited by Ben_Tech; 8th November 2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 8th November 2012, 11:21 PM   #76
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if you can tolerate using a steep high pass on the fullrange 3" at ~100hz, or dont generally play very loudly, then i dont think you have much to worry about. The maximum clean sounding volume, and general volume capacity is going to be less.
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Old 9th November 2012, 02:14 AM   #77
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if you can tolerate using a steep high pass on the fullrange 3" at ~100hz, or dont generally play very loudly, then i dont think you have much to worry about.
Agreed, however, as this is for HT, and volume levels are adjusted for dialog, I find that FX peaks can be quite demanding.

Try, for example, adjusting the system for the dialog at the beginning of Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan and letting it play through the beach landing scene at the same volume......

So, that's why I'm thinking, for a full range single drive system for HT, 4" and up..... or else retreat back to the two-way forums.

Pretty sure having no crossover 100-20K would be the best for coherency though! That's why I'm here.
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Old 9th November 2012, 02:33 AM   #78
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"Pretty sure having no crossover 100-20K would be the best for coherency though! That's why I'm here. "

yup.
5khz is pretty good, and a 6db anywhare would be fine.
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Old 9th November 2012, 03:10 AM   #79
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yup.
5khz is pretty good, and a 6db anywhare would be fine.
Hi Norman, Thanks... but what does that mean? I'm talking about the benefits of having no crossover in all but the sub base range....
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Old 9th November 2012, 03:38 AM   #80
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Just get the 10.2's and be done with it man!
Geeeeeeze.......
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