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Old 24th October 2012, 10:37 AM   #31
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Markaudio

Check out Marks PDF's.

The A10's Fo is 35Hz, Qts 0.35, Fs 87dB
The A12's Fo is 42Hz, Qts 0.28, Fs 91.7

This tells me (I am no expert) that the A10 will play lower, Have more of a natural bass hump before rolloff and the efficiency will match most subs better.

The A12's extra efficiency will most likely have to be thrown away to level match with you sub? What is the sub(s) efficiency(dB)

None of my friends have ever been disappointed with any of the MA drivers so you cant go too wrong.

Dean
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunk303 View Post
Mark (I think) did mention that the new A12 is best suited to low watt tube amps.

If you are thinking the A12 is bigger so must move more air you may be disappointed. Size really aint everything, especially when it comes to full ranges.

If you want 3d imaging = A7
Bass = A10
I have seen enough user think that the a10 is a lesser driver to the 7 to make me guess that they are are not like the 7 quality.
I dont need bass under 100 hertz from any fullrange, I have stereo active subs for that...
I NEED body in the midrange, that is exactly why I'm changing my speakers. I have 4 inch fostex fe127, and while the dynamics and clairty and soudstage is great, I couldnt care less because there is NO body or weight or oomph. Its a tiny sound simply because its a tiny driver. and I cant take anymore of this small sound, I almost prefer my old dynaco a 25 just because the sound is full and they can rock. fe127 cant rock, well not up to my standards.. A bigger driver will create a bigger sound right and so I feel its a safe bet for a 12.

I am willing to trade some high end for body in the midrange and so logically, the 12 should give me that.

Last edited by murphythecat8; 24th October 2012 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:29 PM   #33
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Mark has done a such a food job with these units, physics will tell you the difference. Bigger cone, more spl, more dynamics, more beaming, more body. That simple. The ultimate is a 7.3 in a small room. Wonderful!
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Old 24th October 2012, 12:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by buzzforb View Post
Mark has done a such a food job with these units, physics will tell you the difference. Bigger cone, more spl, more dynamics, more beaming, more body. That simple. The ultimate is a 7.3 in a small room. Wonderful!
you have heard both right. are you sure your alpair 12 is completely broke in. Could you tell me about how thin sounding is the 7's compared to the 12? there must be a difference?! okay I see, so you tell me that theire is more body from the alpair 12 but you still prefer the 7's?
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Old 24th October 2012, 05:48 PM   #35
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"Body" is just lower midrange (~300Hz).

Have you used BSC on your Fostexes?
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Old 24th October 2012, 05:58 PM   #36
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yeah but around 300 hertz is the fondamental of most of instruments. I use the fonkens enclosure

you dont think that its important to have a bodied driver?
I honestly cant understand how we can really think that the fe127 is good enough for a main system.
Dont get me wrong, they are excellent from midrange to high, but the lack of midbass is really killing the deal, making the fe127 thin sounding without much body at all. There is a body, but its thin, just too thin for me.

anyways, I sincerely hope that the 12p will give me just a bit more in that respect.
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Old 24th October 2012, 06:26 PM   #37
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I dont really know fullrange drivers at all, but what if you tried a bigger box? Maybe a tansmission line?
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:22 PM   #38
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Baffle step compensation - it applies correction for the reduced output in the lower midrange due to the speakers going from 2pi to 4pi radiation.

Sounds like a simple 2-component (per side) circuit is all you need.
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:39 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by murphythecat8 View Post
you dont think that its important to have a bodied driver?
The speaker should reproduce the input signal, period. Anything else is a distortion (coloration). But as Chris661 is mentioning, the lack of "body" and/or bass is typically due to the lack of proper shelving to deal with baffle step (i.e., BSC filter, or moving the speaker up against the boundaries, etc.)

Quote:
I honestly cant understand how we can really think that the fe127 is good enough for a main system.
You and me both, buddy. I lived with it for a while, but gradually, the peaky treble became annoying. It was no lack of bass (I had solved that particular problem), it was the peaks, and the (apparent) need to sit off-axis. It was fine for a while, but I want perfection. (There are better Fostex than the 127.)

Although the 127 will indeed do great things in a proper cab (e.g., the Harvey), either of the Alpairs will have tons more thump, and very pleasing and extended treble. I like having paper for some things, metal cones for others. None of these drivers will be absolutely "the last driver you buy," but the Alpairs are mighty fine.

(The best I heard the 12 was in a hand-built field coil retrofit. Those were a lot of fun. But paper has its charm as well, for other situations.)
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Old 24th October 2012, 07:53 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by rjbond3rd View Post
The speaker should reproduce the input signal, period. Anything else is a distortion (coloration). But as Chris661 is mentioning, the lack of "body" and/or bass is typically due to the lack of proper shelving to deal with baffle step (i.e., BSC filter, or moving the speaker up against the boundaries, etc.)



You and me both, buddy. I lived with it for a while, but gradually, the peaky treble became annoying. It was no lack of bass (I had solved that particular problem), it was the peaks, and the (apparent) need to sit off-axis. It was fine for a while, but I want perfection. (There are better Fostex than the 127.)

Although the 127 will indeed do great things in a proper cab (e.g., the Harvey), either of the Alpairs will have tons more thump, and very pleasing and extended treble. I like having paper for some things, metal cones for others. None of these drivers will be absolutely "the last driver you buy," but the Alpairs are mighty fine.

(The best I heard the 12 was in a hand-built field coil retrofit. Those were a lot of fun. But paper has its charm as well, for other situations.)
okay great. no I dont think that the alpair will be my last speaker, but likely a major upgrade from the fe127 right? but I need to wonder, after mark audio fullrange, what is the next step up in the fullrange world. I dont think lowther is better, so...

my dad have a pair of tannoy red 12 inch and 15 inch tannoy red, I dont think that the mark audio is better, well see, but if it gets a bit close, I'll be damn happy.

im curious to know your opinion on the cabinets I should do for the alpair 12p...
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