Here's a a noteworthy design I came across yesterday (at RMAF in Denver), called the Vaughn Cabernet II. Apparently to boost the world economy, it conspicuously consumes a total of 32 Fostex drivers per stereo pair (and that's just for the midrange).
Each speaker has 8 forward-facing drivers, and 8 rear-facing drivers. The web site says 4" drivers but they didn't look like the FE103En to my weary eyes, so I assume they are in fact the 4.5 FE126En. These speakers were in the Wavelength Audio room (and was quite crowded).
The sound was really ear-pleasing. I wonder if they are going for any of the physics of a line array. If so, perhaps it is subtle as it just sounded like a nice, neutral, easy-going design sans flash (as opposed to, say, Don Keele's CBT array which is like getting lost in a freaky forest of sounds coming from everywhere and nowhere at once).
It's always nice to see and hear a flat-out overkill design like this.
Each speaker has 8 forward-facing drivers, and 8 rear-facing drivers. The web site says 4" drivers but they didn't look like the FE103En to my weary eyes, so I assume they are in fact the 4.5 FE126En. These speakers were in the Wavelength Audio room (and was quite crowded).
The sound was really ear-pleasing. I wonder if they are going for any of the physics of a line array. If so, perhaps it is subtle as it just sounded like a nice, neutral, easy-going design sans flash (as opposed to, say, Don Keele's CBT array which is like getting lost in a freaky forest of sounds coming from everywhere and nowhere at once).
It's always nice to see and hear a flat-out overkill design like this.
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I disagree gents. Some slightly better closeups here: Speakers
Take a very close look at the frames on those drivers; specifically the corners. If that was the FE126En, those corners would clipped at 45 degrees. Since they're not, it's almost certain to be the FE103En.
And no, I'm not that sad. I just opened up the data sheets out of interest & noticed the detail difference in the frame & compared. OK, that's sad enough I grant you, but at least I didn't know it off-hand.
Either way, should be easy enough to DIY.
Take a very close look at the frames on those drivers; specifically the corners. If that was the FE126En, those corners would clipped at 45 degrees. Since they're not, it's almost certain to be the FE103En.
And no, I'm not that sad. I just opened up the data sheets out of interest & noticed the detail difference in the frame & compared. OK, that's sad enough I grant you, but at least I didn't know it off-hand.
Either way, should be easy enough to DIY.
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I disagree gents. Some slightly better closeups here: Speakers
Take a very close look at the frames on those drivers; specifically the corners. If that was the FE126En, those corners would clipped at 45 degrees. Since they're not, it's almost certain to be the FE103En.
And no, I'm not that sad. I just opened up the data sheets out of interest & noticed the detail difference in the frame & compared. OK, that's sad enough I grant you, but at least I didn't know it off-hand.
If I read the "data sheet" correctly, those are passive radiators on the sides. I guess 16 FE103s per side in a bipole arrangement could dig that deep, but I'd be inclined to find other ways to spend $8000 (or a whole lot less) but then to equate low production "retail" to DIY budgets is a bit unfair.
Nice enough job on the enclosures, and considering they were demoed in the Wavelength room, no doubt the total system was very ear pleasing.
By Jove you are right... i was going on the relative proportion of the cone, but when you can see the frame, the proportions do look more like FE103En, I have both on my desk at the moment i'll snap a picture.
One thing those pics also show is that they are bamboo plywood, but it looks like they didn't bother to use the better stuff.
dave
Not woofers, passive radiators. They don't have a motor. Looks like the 12in Dayton Audio NS310 currently on clearance offer at PartsXpress: Dayton Audio NS310-PR 12" Cast Frame Passive Radiator 295-140
Going by the dimensions on the site, the alignment of 16 103s with two of these PBRs doesn't look so great to me, but YMMV. They're pretty boxes though.
Going by the dimensions on the site, the alignment of 16 103s with two of these PBRs doesn't look so great to me, but YMMV. They're pretty boxes though.
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Yes & no. Passive radiators are most commonly used in situations when a vent would be very (perhaps impracticably) long for a given box size, although there are other uses of course. I can't say I've ever used them myself, although I've nothing against them. They have their advantages and disadvantages like everything else.
>>> but I'd be inclined to find other ways to spend $8000 (or a whole lot less)
Me too.
I remember passive radiators being used in early Polks that sounded excellent as well as early Genesis that also sounded excellent.
But for this very large speaker me thinks powered subs would be more worth the coin.
Honestly, as nice as this design may sound I see it as a waste of all those nice little full range drivers. But that's just me.
Zilla
Me too.
I remember passive radiators being used in early Polks that sounded excellent as well as early Genesis that also sounded excellent.
But for this very large speaker me thinks powered subs would be more worth the coin.
Honestly, as nice as this design may sound I see it as a waste of all those nice little full range drivers. But that's just me.
Zilla
The bass was nice and clean. I see it not as a waste, but as pursuing a crazy dream (so an admirable, understandable obsession).
I'm wondering how does one tune the FE103En's so low? The Fs is 83Hz. An EBS gets down to 60Hz at a hefty price. I guess if you have 32 of them, the 0.6mm excursion isn't the end of the world.
Perhaps the 44Hz is an in-room, -10db sort of number, as opposed to an F3 or Fb. Then again, who knows.
I'm wondering:
1. Do you think it necessary to notch out the wraparound frequency? That wraparound dip is what keeps me from building (rather than just simulating) a proper bipole (as opposed to 1.5) with this driver.
2. Does anyone care to speculate on an ideal crossover frequency? The tweeter did sound a tad "separate" no doubt because there's no rear-facing tweeter. And aside from that, it almost seems as if it might sound more natural with a more ideal power response than whatever the tweeter adds.
I'm wondering how does one tune the FE103En's so low? The Fs is 83Hz. An EBS gets down to 60Hz at a hefty price. I guess if you have 32 of them, the 0.6mm excursion isn't the end of the world.
Perhaps the 44Hz is an in-room, -10db sort of number, as opposed to an F3 or Fb. Then again, who knows.
I'm wondering:
1. Do you think it necessary to notch out the wraparound frequency? That wraparound dip is what keeps me from building (rather than just simulating) a proper bipole (as opposed to 1.5) with this driver.
2. Does anyone care to speculate on an ideal crossover frequency? The tweeter did sound a tad "separate" no doubt because there's no rear-facing tweeter. And aside from that, it almost seems as if it might sound more natural with a more ideal power response than whatever the tweeter adds.
-With difficulty. I ran a couple of quick sims of it, and it didn't look great. As in an F6 of 100Hz or higher. Depends on the internal volume though; the external dimensions may not necessarily corrolate to what is available internally.
-Since the room dominates with bipoles & most omnidirectional speakers, I wouldn't get too worked up about it. I'm not a big fan of them myself, but that's just me.
-Also depends on the slope, powerhandling requirements, the tweeter's response, & how sensitive you are to phase etc. matters, so no simple answer to that one.
-Since the room dominates with bipoles & most omnidirectional speakers, I wouldn't get too worked up about it. I'm not a big fan of them myself, but that's just me.
-Also depends on the slope, powerhandling requirements, the tweeter's response, & how sensitive you are to phase etc. matters, so no simple answer to that one.
As I recently stumbled across when looking at a Totem's webite re the Arro just the other day, all you gotta do is tell your ad department that "sounds better than you'd think it should" wait a few days and read
since there are so many laws of physics that apply to the the known multidimensional universe, there must be numerous ways to defy them as well?
No insult to Totem intended, I have no doubt the cited models are delightful sounding ( I should really take the 10 min drive on my way home to audition to some of these), but the ad copy reads like something you'd expect from an amateur enthusiast's blog, not a mainstream commercial enterprise.
Hi Scott,
Thank you for taking a look. I have been simming (simplistically) based on each driver being the equivalent of a vented Vb=Vas, Fb=Fs (as GM often recommends), and it seems 80Hz is easily achieved, but how to get an octave below that?
I guess the passive radiator could be tuned (detuned?) to 60Hz and then the specified 44Hz could be well into the rolloff region, but depending on room gain. At any rate, it did sound good!
Thank you for taking a look. I have been simming (simplistically) based on each driver being the equivalent of a vented Vb=Vas, Fb=Fs (as GM often recommends), and it seems 80Hz is easily achieved, but how to get an octave below that?
I guess the passive radiator could be tuned (detuned?) to 60Hz and then the specified 44Hz could be well into the rolloff region, but depending on room gain. At any rate, it did sound good!
I was in there a few years ago with a friend, and listened to a giant booming tower speaker (not Totem) that left me feeling slightly nauseous. Very friendly staff (if not terribly knowledgeable), a bit of a shock compared to some "other" shops in town.
jeff
I haven't been to their new store. Guess a visit wouldn't be a bad idea. Are they still mostly a TV store (ie audio an HT adjunct)?
dave
not judging by their complete product listing - many names will be very familiar
Atlas AVU - Welcome
As Jeff noted - I'd been there before when shopping for my last TV and furniture - very helpful, if not as "knowledgeable" as some of their potential customers - you remember the long learning curve
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