Greetings All:
Need to replace Altec 604's with smaller cabinets. I'm very interested in FR's, but I like all kinds of music. One minute I could be listening to Sinatra, then next it's The Who. On to Anita Baker, then SRV. Next could be John Denver, then Pavarotti. Gospel for a while, then on to classical. You get the picture...
I realize there are always compromises, but considering the fact I'll be using a Red Wine Audio 30 watt amp (will be looking at an F3, later), what drivers would you recommend I consider, based on the diverse music interest? - Thanks
Need to replace Altec 604's with smaller cabinets. I'm very interested in FR's, but I like all kinds of music. One minute I could be listening to Sinatra, then next it's The Who. On to Anita Baker, then SRV. Next could be John Denver, then Pavarotti. Gospel for a while, then on to classical. You get the picture...
I realize there are always compromises, but considering the fact I'll be using a Red Wine Audio 30 watt amp (will be looking at an F3, later), what drivers would you recommend I consider, based on the diverse music interest? - Thanks
How small are the smaller cabinets you talk about? This can make a difference in the suggested driver. To me, when I think small cabinets I also add a subwoofer(bass module, call it what you want) to the mix.
For everyday listening my 2.1 setup in the bedroom works very well. From parts-express.com a Dayton 2.1 amp. It drives a Tuba18 from billfitzmaurice.com and some 3" tangbands in a sealed box. Works better than it should.
For everyday listening my 2.1 setup in the bedroom works very well. From parts-express.com a Dayton 2.1 amp. It drives a Tuba18 from billfitzmaurice.com and some 3" tangbands in a sealed box. Works better than it should.
I would look at planet 10 and e-mail dave he has being doing this fullrange driver thing for years. I would start from the bottom. I would buy 3 brands of small fullrange drivers. Fostex,mark audio and tang band. I would start with the fostex Fe103en or fe126en, or the ff125wk drivers. then look at the mark audio drivers CHR -70 or the Alpair 6-m drivers. Now look at the tang band drivers W4-1320sif or the same driver but a 3 inch and a better magnet. The W3-1364sa or the 5 inch driver from tang band. The W5-1661saf drivers. I can't say to much about all these drivers but, I can tell you am a fostex fan. In all the years I have had fostex drivers no matter how hard I push the drivers they stand the test of time and last for for me. Again I would contact dave from planet 10 and ask him what he thinks. Cheers jm
Last edited:
8" or 10". I have been looking at the Zu Omens & Tekton Lores (those are acceptable cabinet sizes), but wonder if I could do better (aka cheaper) myself. Perhaps I don't need an additional HF driver...added costs and reduced imaging(?). I really don't want to go any bigger that the TT-2000: Speakers - FredT300B's Photos
Maybe I can go w/ a full range speaker & add a sub later (if needed). I want to stay away from PHY's & (premium) Seas. The 10" alnico AN's are an acceptable price, but really don't want to go higher (unless adding a ribbon tweeter would make that much difference).
I was going to build new cabinets for my 604's, but the significant other was not thrilled w/ it, to say the least. I'm trying to be respectful of her wishes & do something w/ higher WAF.
Thanks, I should have mentioned that 8" or 10" are acceptable. I'm just trying to eliminate the 9 cubic foot boxes the Altecs would require. When my girlfriend said, "I don't want those in my family room," I said in jest, "Then you don't want me in your family." She has relented, but I am willing to compromise, to a degree.
Me, i haven't yet found a big driver i really like (ie 6" or bigger). But you are coming from a really big driver. You might look to something with twin Alpair 10.2. Or the TB W8-1808 (i think they are overpriced, but lots of people really like them)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/218907-tanken-1808-tang-band-1808-a.html
dave
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/218907-tanken-1808-tang-band-1808-a.html
dave
How small? My A12p Super Pencils seem happy playing anything, but they aren't diminutive @ 10" wide x 19" deep x 37" tall, plus another 4" for the riser stands.
jeff
Based on your listening habits and current speakers, shifting to a 'FR' system is an exercise in futility. The Lores size is almost doable for the 604 except turn it sideways and increase this 'width' just enough to physically install the 604.
If you decide to go this route, PM me and I'll work up the rest of the design.
GM
Trust me, guys, I'm not thrilled w/ parting w/ the 604's. It's a perception thing. The Lores & Omens (she's seen a pic of these) are 12x13 & 12x12; a much narrower front baffle than a 604 requiring 17"-18" (at least, right?). Relationships are give & take. If she is willing to move from her family for a job for me, I can find speakers that are more tolerable to her (my thoughts, not hers).
So FR, with a small powered sub hidden, won't get me there? This is surprising. I guess I'll have to go the multi-driver route then, which is disappointing because a smaller high-efficient, crossoverless, point-source system would be awesome.
well...............
you can do it.
my temporary system is a 6" with 5khz crossed piezo run wide open (12" wide box) and I run dual 15's crossed @80hz @18db/octave louder.
It gives a nice sub sat system sound that can rumble and handle rap easily.
It doesn't compare to when I run the same 15's crossed at 750hz with it's horn.
That system pounds you and makes bass sound great, even at low level, but it doesn't rumble unless you crank it, but the voice / highest end is worse.
But it works great for watching "Thor" or any action movie you want, really exhilarating and FUN.
Also, I've ran a pair of 4" in the single box along side with an 80hz 6db crossed 12" in a vega v-12f (bypassing crossover). Worked well but desperately needed baffle step.
To me, ideally you run the full range WITH the subs.
I find a 200hz crossover point horrible.
I (like many others) strive to keep peace in the living room. If she likes em, get them and hide a sub.
I was able to get around the lack of bass by using a bunch of full range drivers (see avatar). It looks so abstract and is around 7" wide, eventhough it is 5' tall. That has about the cone area of a 12". I should get it in the next 2 weeks, but not many can tolerate the TINY sweet spot of something like that.
Or..............
You can do something like this, putting the bass cabinet under the tv. 11ft3 sealed to a pair of dayton 15's (rss-390hf).
Is that sneaky or what ???????????
Norman
you can do it.
my temporary system is a 6" with 5khz crossed piezo run wide open (12" wide box) and I run dual 15's crossed @80hz @18db/octave louder.
It gives a nice sub sat system sound that can rumble and handle rap easily.
It doesn't compare to when I run the same 15's crossed at 750hz with it's horn.
That system pounds you and makes bass sound great, even at low level, but it doesn't rumble unless you crank it, but the voice / highest end is worse.
But it works great for watching "Thor" or any action movie you want, really exhilarating and FUN.
Also, I've ran a pair of 4" in the single box along side with an 80hz 6db crossed 12" in a vega v-12f (bypassing crossover). Worked well but desperately needed baffle step.
To me, ideally you run the full range WITH the subs.
I find a 200hz crossover point horrible.
I (like many others) strive to keep peace in the living room. If she likes em, get them and hide a sub.
I was able to get around the lack of bass by using a bunch of full range drivers (see avatar). It looks so abstract and is around 7" wide, eventhough it is 5' tall. That has about the cone area of a 12". I should get it in the next 2 weeks, but not many can tolerate the TINY sweet spot of something like that.
Or..............
You can do something like this, putting the bass cabinet under the tv. 11ft3 sealed to a pair of dayton 15's (rss-390hf).
Is that sneaky or what ???????????
Norman
Last edited:
A small FR + woofer(s) will be different than the 604, but not necessarily any less emotionally satisfying.
You have to try it to see if it is to your taste.
You have to give up something to fit speakers into a smaller footprint, fidelity is not one of them.
dave
The combo pictured in post #254??
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/club...nnual-vancouver-island-diyfest-2012-a-26.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/club...nnual-vancouver-island-diyfest-2012-a-26.html
Now we are getting somewhere. 
So smaller FB's will sound better than larger FB's, w/ a powered sub? If so, I will have to convert any small monitors to floor standers (using the bottom half as stands), as I have a 110 lb German Shepherd & perhaps an eventual toddler to worry about knocking them off stands. Note: these will be placed in small to mid sized rooms for the foreseeable future.
Which smaller FB's should I look at, based on the diverse music tastes (from "girl with a guitar" to [Buddy] Guy with a guitar) ?
Many thanks!!!
So smaller FB's will sound better than larger FB's, w/ a powered sub? If so, I will have to convert any small monitors to floor standers (using the bottom half as stands), as I have a 110 lb German Shepherd & perhaps an eventual toddler to worry about knocking them off stands. Note: these will be placed in small to mid sized rooms for the foreseeable future.
Which smaller FB's should I look at, based on the diverse music tastes (from "girl with a guitar" to [Buddy] Guy with a guitar) ?
Many thanks!!!
That is an example of the concept from the very small end of the spectrum. It did raise a lot of eyebrows & cause some jaws to drop.
Here is a larger example:
Zia, do you have pictures of your variation of these yet?
dave
Oh really? Not even Lowthers do Classical/large orchestra well except at Muzak levels. The music is just too complex for a 'FR' driver unless severely BW limited.
Take these out of the mix and like folks point out, any decent 'FR' driver can satisfy at some level, especially if a 'sub' system is used, though some need a super tweeter also.
I haven't kept up with the Econo and group buy horn threads, but IIRC there's some smaller ones being developed around 10" wide BW mid-bass woofers, which seems to me is a good compromise for a floor standing tower that meets the size limitation and at least is in the ballpark of the 604's performance, which combined with a relatively HE separate sub system should match or maybe even outperform a 9 ft^3 loaded 604 overall down low.
GM
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.