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-   -   Full-range vs. Multi-way research (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/220418-full-range-vs-multi-way-research.html)

stochastic 26th September 2012 08:30 AM

Full-range vs. Multi-way research
 
Can someone point me toward some scholastic research on the effects of full range drivers vs. multi-way systems? I'm wanting to write a research paper on this subject but the main sources for information on full range drivers tends to be forums like this one and informal statements on full range enthusiast websites. I'm sure people in this forum know of great research papers and scholars that have commented on the subject - I'm just wanting to tap that source of information. Any help/suggestions is greatly appreciated.

stochastic 26th September 2012 02:26 PM

Just to clarify, I'm looking for information on subjects like cone breakup, phase distortion of crossovers (actually I'm able to find a lot on this), intermodulation distortion, high-frequency beaming, point source localization, etc... I'm sure there's a few more subjects to mention but any areas of great formal discussion or testing in a peer-reviewed context would be great.

planet10 26th September 2012 04:42 PM

If you find any, please post.

I have a substantial audio library you are welcome to peruse (AES and aXp going back to something like 1972), and a visit to the mountain is always a good opportunity tolisten to a range of fullrangers.

An AES membership, and a subscription to full access to the AES electronic library would give you access to AES papers & preprints (at least the newer ones).

dave

stochastic 26th September 2012 05:02 PM

I've been trying to search through aes journals but they've shown little to no fruitful results. I'm an SFU student so I can access the journals but not their e-library where the conference papers are. From what I've found those papers might have more info...

I'll certainly post any results and a copy of my final paper.

planet10 26th September 2012 05:27 PM

As a student, AES membership and e-library access is relatively cheap (got my AES membership as a student at U of A).

The journals have little directly on the subject, if they did i would have come across it already.

dave

tuxedocivic 26th September 2012 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planet10 (Post 3180013)

The journals have little directly on the subject,

That doesn't surprise me. Chances are you'll have to find articles that tackle a specific audio topic, that can be applied to full range or multi way.

For instance. Maybe you'll find an article about audibility of off axis measurements in small and large rooms. You could look at the evidence and apply it to full range speakers, saying they have very regular off axis curves which the articles found the control group preferred.

Or the audibility of cone break up at various frequencies.

etc.

I think there's probably lots, just none of it has been applied directly to your topic. Lots of us here have done it, just not in a formal sense like you are trying to do. So if you come across something you think applies, feel free to bounce the idea off of us.

chrisb 26th September 2012 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuxedocivic (Post 3180045)
That doesn't surprise me. Chances are you'll have to find articles that tackle a specific audio topic, that can be applied to full range or multi way.

For instance. Maybe you'll find an article about audibility of off axis measurements in small and large rooms. You could look at the evidence and apply it to full range speakers, saying they have very regular off axis curves which the articles found the control group preferred.

Or the audibility of cone break up at various frequencies.

etc.

I think there's probably lots, just none of it has been applied directly to your topic. Lots of us here have done it, just not in a formal sense like you are trying to do. So if you come across something you think applies, feel free to bounce the idea off of us.


is that one of those situations that if you understand enough about how to parse your inquiry, you might already understand or intuit as much as the authors / experts on the subject?

tuxedocivic 26th September 2012 08:45 PM

It's one of those things where, if he's writting a research paper about the subject, he'll need to understand enough to know what to look for and how it may apply.

For instance, the cone break up example. If you don't know that there is some phenomenon called cone break up that many full rangers have to deal with, then you might not be able to tackle this subject. Because he'll gloss over any articles about it thinking it doesn't apply. But it doesn't mean he needs to understand what cone break up is, if it's audible, what makes it audible, what cone materials are conducive to break up, etc. The articles can tell him that.

Judging by his post #2 he's got a handle on the subjects that need to be looked into. There are many more though.

ra7 26th September 2012 08:46 PM

There isn't much research on the subject because there isn't much to research.

The audibility of resonances has been extensively studied and there is not much difference between multiway and single driver systems. Some full range driver exhibit more resonances than would be considered acceptable in a multiway.

Regarding being point-source v multiple sources, the ear cannot really tell unless the crossover is completely botched. Good phase overlap through the crossover region is all that is needed. Besides, the audibility of phase response errors has been extensively studied, and numerous researchers have found that minor phase errors, such as those in multiway systems, are inaudible.

The one thing that multiway systems may produce is lobing that will be not as bad in full range drivers. Here again, the audibility is questionable and it has been shown that smooth off-axis curves are preferred. Holes in the power response are ok, but peaks are not. Most full range drivers start beaming in the HF and off axis is quite chaotic. Multiway systems can maintain even off axis response over a larger range.

A good beginning point will be doing a blind test using a full range driver and comparing it to a multiway with identical on axis response. It may be hard to match the off-axis response, but it might be interesting to find out which is preferred even with different off-axis response. Maybe get some buddies and do a test at home? I would be interested in learning about the result of such a test.

If you haven't already read Toole, you definitely should. He has backed up everything he says with references that will help shorten your literature review.

stochastic 26th September 2012 09:56 PM

So I went to sign up to the AES as a student member hoping to gain access to their E-Library. Their advertised price for student membership is $39/year (I can accept that for the knowledge I'll gain) - but it turns out that the E-Library costs another $145/year to access. Since my university already has access to everything but the E-Library I'm not about to spend $200/year for this special library card. They just lost a potential student membership due to their greed (Dave if you're a member you might want to convey this problem to the board).

ra7 - It's nice that you're offering suggested findings on the subject but I really do require substantiated references. I'm in the process of reading a few books by Mr. Toole. Is there one in particular you're thinking of?

tuxedocivic - I only have preliminary understanding of said topics at this moment. What other areas should be considered in this argument/comparison? Oh, and what's with all these locals commenting (I grew up in Nanaimo)?


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