Fostex FF85WK & WinISD - Am I doing it right? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st September 2012, 11:39 AM   #1
Seb C is offline Seb C  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Default Fostex FF85WK & WinISD - Am I doing it right?

Hi all,

Apologies for another thread touching on full range/Fostex/HT and the like. I have a few questions about modelling the FF85WK and what to expect.

As background, I've been reading for a while and figuring out what to build for a new project. I've built a couple of guitar amps and speakers before, and used to work building and installing car audio systems (although the application of science was somewhat basic where I worked). For my project I'm looking to build four or five speakers for my living room, to cover music, TV, and movies.

One of the main reasons I'm looking to build a set of speakers is that my girlfriend is very fussy about how they look. We currently have a pair of Kef Q35.2 floorstanders in a 2.0 setup, and she hates the way they look. Too big, too impossing, and just and "ugly box". So, the new setup has to be a) signficantly smaller and b) better looking.

The better looking bit is pretty easy; a good friend has a well equipped workshop for woodwork, so making some nice boxes is easy enough.

As far as size goes, I am really intrigued by the small full rangers often talked about, and had started to work on some models and sketches for a FF85WK based speaker. I wasn't sure whether they'd be enough for fronts (with a subwoofer to fill in the lower octaves, and an active crossover to filter low frequencies), or whether I'd use them for surround duties and some larger Fostex (105, or 125 at a push) for the fronts.

Using WinISD pro and the published data from Fostex, I ran a few models for sealed and BR, on the small side and the larger side, various tuning frequencies - but no matter what I do, I see to have the speaker exceeding XMax at around 100-120Hz with less than 1W input. Is this really what I should expect? XMax (and thus rapidly increasing distortion) played full range at barely 85dB?

I was planning on crossing over somewhere between 80 and 120Hz - but wanted to experiment on that point when I've built some prototypes. I know crossing higher would give me more headroom, but I can only run one subwoofer (girlfriend's ruling), and while localization isn't much of an issue at 80Hz (from my own experiments), 100Hz is worse, 120Hz considerably worse, and beyond that... well there's just no point in running one sub crossed at 200Hz in my mind. The results would just be unsatisfactory.

I welcome your thoughts. Thank your for any help and insights!
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 02:04 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ladysmith, BC
When I looked into the fe83 I was getting similar results. I had to cross them at 450hz to mid woofers to get the output I was looking for.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 02:44 PM   #3
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Maryland USA
I dont think the FF85 is what you are looking for,,,if you are considering 125wk.
(if you want bass)
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 02:48 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb C View Post
Using WinISD pro and the published data from Fostex, I ran a few models for sealed and BR, on the small side and the larger side, various tuning frequencies - but no matter what I do, I see to have the speaker exceeding XMax at around 100-120Hz with less than 1W input. Is this really what I should expect? XMax (and thus rapidly increasing distortion) played full range at barely 85dB?
Yup. Although see my rant last night about the value (or lack thereof) of Xmax figures. 3"or 4" driver with very good dispersion and high xmax?

The FF85wk is a reasonably efficient midtweet, like the majority of 3in - 3 1/2in wideband drivers. If you want LF, you will always be better off highpassing it & running dedicated LF support.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 03:23 PM   #5
Seb C is offline Seb C  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
That's helpful, thanks guys. I've heard much good about these drivers, but I guess I took the term "full range" a little too literally. It does make me wonder, however, how things like the Blumenstein speakers perform. They look wonderful - but are they very short on headroom?

As an alternative to the larger Fostex (size being an issue) am I likely to have more luck with the small MarkAudio drivers, which have substantially greater XMax? I was leaning towards the Fostex as they're MUCH easier to source in the UK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 03:30 PM   #6
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Maryland USA
I do have a pair of the FF85 in a simple BR box (fostex plans) I don't think you would would want to even hear them...bla.

Looking foward to building new boxes some day, but I have seen where if you push the bass issue, they are not going to work for you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 03:53 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb C View Post
That's helpful, thanks guys. I've heard much good about these drivers, but I guess I took the term "full range" a little too literally. It does make me wonder, however, how things like the Blumenstein speakers perform. They look wonderful - but are they very short on headroom?
Headroom would be the least of my concerns, since IMO, based on the published data, the FE83En is not suitable for vented boxes. It's not how I'd do one anyway. Clark has his own approach though, and since he has plenty of happy owners & AFAIK never lacks for customers, evidently a lot of people like the way they sound. Fair enough; that's what matters.


Quote:
As an alternative to the larger Fostex (size being an issue) am I likely to have more luck with the small MarkAudio drivers, which have substantially greater XMax? I was leaning towards the Fostex as they're MUCH easier to source in the UK.
For what you want, probably. You can likely get some direct from Mark. Remember what I mentioned about Xmax though. It's a guide, no more, & rarely an on / off switch. You might want to take a gander at the Tang Band range too. They have some solid units.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 21st September 2012 at 03:55 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 04:05 PM   #8
Seb C is offline Seb C  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
For what you want, probably. You can likely get some direct from Mark. Remember what I mentioned about Xmax though. It's a guide, no more, & rarely an on / off switch.
Thanks, understood. I'll keep playing with the models and see if I can come up with something that at least looks reasonable on paper, then make a prototype or two.

I had a little play with an SPL metre and my current setup a couple of days ago and that was what prompted me to think about this. 70-80dB was quite a nice listening level, but more energetic music was hitting 90dB without ever feeling loud. I can imagine 95-100dB peaks in movies being not uncommon when I'm in the mood and it's a noisy movie. The FF85WKs won't give me anything like the headroom I need without being crossed far higher than I want (and won't keep up with the subwoofer, either; simulations were showing 103dB plus...)
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 04:30 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ladysmith, BC
And if you include your listening disctance, you'll likely need another 6db at least. For movies I shoot for 100db peaks at the LP. I think Dolby says 105db, but I can live without that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 04:50 PM   #10
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb C View Post
The better looking bit is pretty easy; a good friend has a well equipped workshop for woodwork, so making some nice boxes is easy enough.
Using WinISD pro and the published data from Fostex, I ran a few models for sealed and BR, on the small side and the larger side, various tuning frequencies - but no matter what I do, I see to have the speaker exceeding XMax at around 100-120Hz with less than 1W input. Is this really what I should expect? XMax (and thus rapidly increasing distortion) played full range at barely 85dB?
Yes that is about right. But you have to hear these things, they perform beyond what you'd expect from the sims. Officially we call these computer speakers, but I have seen a lot of tonsils demoing the uFonken as jaws drop -- and it isn't like i have a small room. Adding helper woofers means few apologies for the bass. This combo is quite stunning (lots of room for morphing bass enclosures into something suitable, these are an ML-TL and we worked within the restiction that the helper woofers needed to be the same footprint as the mains.

Click the image to open in full size.

If you want small you need to be willing to compromise ultimate levels.

If you want more bass, one of the Alpair 6.2 might be a better choice.

A relevant post with more info, links & pics. Desktop loudspeaker design desires.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fostex fe83en//ff85wk questions soundnovice Full Range 40 19th September 2012 07:51 PM
Fostex FF85WK in uFonken ebag4 Full Range 4 9th September 2012 01:28 PM
Bass Helper Recommendations for FF85WK? goody75 Full Range 13 23rd February 2012 02:32 AM
Fostex FF225WK + FF85WK together? talaerts Full Range 24 7th November 2011 03:41 PM
Ideal BLHorn type enclosure? (for Fostex FE168E∑ besides the recommended one) Fosta Full Range 12 20th September 2009 05:05 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:47 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2