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Old 21st September 2012, 01:24 AM   #1
FozzZ is offline FozzZ  Canada
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Default To Fullrange or not to Fullrange

Hi all,

I've been intregued by the idea of Fullrange speaker systems or some time. Up to this point I've only built more common Multi way speaker systems. I recently posted a question about dipole Fullrange speakers. I was asking this question because I had planned to use standard sealed or vented system for the bottom end and allow the Fullrange to do everything else. This is my way of easing into the Fullrange world. Im not a bass head but depending on what you read, many say Fullrange systems have little to no bass response. This is one thing that has held me back.
The other part that keeps me from moving to Fullrange is the design requirements. I've read articles on how to design rear loaded horns, but I'm not understanding what I'm reading. Either I'm not reading them correctly or I'm reading the wrong articles. This is what I've taken from it so far.

Horn length is generally a quarter wavelength of the tunning frequency.
Tunning frequency us derived from the speakers Fs, but you should use a slightly higher or lower frequency to reduce peekyness (about 5Hz).
I have no idea how to calculate the horn throat or opening or the ratio of expansion between them.
I know there is going to be some trial and error, but a general guideline on how to start would be most helpful.
I would also like to know what the difference is between a folded horn and the big round horns (the ones that can often look kind of like a saxaphone).

If its possible to attain moderate bass response, I would be thrilled to take one of these projects on.

Sorry for the long winded question.

Thanks
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Old 21st September 2012, 02:54 AM   #2
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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There exist fullrange units that have plenty of bass and can be put into simple sealed enclosures. They sound basically the same as multi-way speakers although without the top-end airy treble.

That said, the more commonly used fullrange drivers have a forward presentation (peaky in the upper midrange due to cone breakup), and no BSC. Once you get used to this bright kind of sound, a normal speaker will sound subdued and dull.

I would recommend the TANG BAND W4-1757SB as the driver to get.

Last edited by cotdt; 21st September 2012 at 03:02 AM.
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Old 21st September 2012, 03:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
There exist fullrange units that have plenty of bass and can be put into simple sealed enclosures. They sound basically the same as multi-way speakers although without the top-end airy treble.
Some of them have just fine treble, in some cases better than fancy expensive tweeters, The lure of the FR, and the reason for the fanatics, is their seemlessness, to quote a luminary (that builds multiways) "XOs are evil)

The best FRs usually benefiy from enclosure more elaborate than sealed,

And on a budget, it is hard to beat a good FR with a multiway.

Just like anything there is the good, the bad, and the ugly, but in the last few years the best have made strides that let them equal or surpass the best drivers made at the historical peak of FR development.

For your 1st project choose something already designed & proven. The choice is dizzying.

dave
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Old 21st September 2012, 03:57 AM   #4
FozzZ is offline FozzZ  Canada
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I have no doubt the choices are near limitless.

I am willing to "copy" a proven design but I've never built a speaker based off of another design. I'm must be stubborn or somthing? And I do want to know what
Im doing and why. Are there any Referances that I can read that might shine a little light on how to design horns? Preferably something not ubber technical. My background is woodworking, not acoustics, so my knowledge is limited in this field.

And as a starting point, what drivers could be recommended for around $500 per set of less. Rembering that I'm hoping to attain the lower octaves!

I will try to research proven designs in the mean time.

Thank you
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Old 21st September 2012, 09:35 AM   #5
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If size isn't a constraint, I can recommend Krishima's with Fostex Fe206 en's. I built a pair and found the bass pretty satisfying, I also have a pair of Vulcans and they are very good too though I think they require more corner placement. I have to admit however that lately I've been running a sub and do like to hear that low grunt where appropriate.
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Old 21st September 2012, 11:54 AM   #6
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Full Range Good Stuff!

I'm more into compact builds, as long as the bass is strong.

Here are some 5" with bass.

1st photo - FX120s.
2nd photo - 125WKs with P10's magic touch.

I like the 125 better, but need to go through P10 to get a enhanced/ matched pair
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 120 125.jpg (218.0 KB, 245 views)
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Old 21st September 2012, 11:55 AM   #7
FozzZ is offline FozzZ  Canada
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I don't mind building a large enclosure providing the result is worth it.

From a design perspective, I really like the look of the Qurve horns. I don't know how the performance would differ between the two types of enclosures however.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 02:27 PM   #8
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I like the idea of small horn speakers with a sub. No crossover on the horns, good sensitivity and bass extension
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Old 22nd September 2012, 04:23 PM   #9
FozzZ is offline FozzZ  Canada
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That was sort of the idea I was going to run with first (Dipole). Nit exactly the same thing, but a two way none the less.

I think I would like to try a true Fullrange this time around. Some sort of back loaded horn. And I will most likely take the advice above and use a preexisting design. I'll modify it enough cosmetically that I won't feel like I'm totally copying someone else.

Now the choice is what driver to use!
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Old 22nd September 2012, 06:54 PM   #10
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Sadly, both the last 2 mentioned horns (calling the 2nd a horn is a misnomer) look like cosmetics played a much larger role than performance.

dave
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