3"or 4" driver with very good dispersion and high xmax? - Page 20 - diyAudio
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Old 24th February 2014, 06:52 PM   #191
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Which generally means 'it is' (too good to be completely true -depends on the criteria used in the definition as with anything), but within the context of the test setups & criteria employed, they're startlingly good measured performers of their type. I think John slowed up partly through pressures of time & also the fact that he has his own midbass driver now. Note that the dynamic range is quite a wide 90dB, so larger than, say, Seas, Scan Speak, & similar to the scale Fostex, Tang Band &c. (varies somewhat depending on when & what)
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Last edited by Scottmoose; 24th February 2014 at 06:55 PM.
 
Old 24th February 2014, 06:55 PM   #192
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Bob -or any others, do have you enough listening experience with both the TG and TC versions to opine on the subjective sonic differences? - in other words, "measures be damned"
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Old 24th February 2014, 06:56 PM   #193
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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When I measured the Vifa in a wide 24x36 in baffle it was much smoother - I think a lot of the ripples I have above are due to the finite 5 in wide square edged baffle. The Zaph data certainly looks very flat and smooth, and smooth response was one of the reasons I used this driver for the Nautaloss Reference Monitor.
 
Old 24th February 2014, 07:00 PM   #194
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Bob -or any others, do have you enough listening experience with both the TG and TC versions to opine on the subjective sonic differences? - in other words, "measures be damned"
Alas, I have not heard a glass cone TG9... I can tell you that the paper cone TC9 sounds great. I think the glass cone has slightly deeper bass extension but very low power handling (15 vs 30 W for the paper). I hear that the HF of both is about the same.

I can tell you that the TC9 paper cone works exceedingly well in a FAST at moderate volume levels (80 dB SPL). Here is a FR of the Vifa TC9 with helper woofers at the listening position (vertex of equilateral triangle with speakers 76 inches apart at 45 in height from floor). Note that the harmonic distortion (up to 5th shown) is about -50dB over the main range of the full range driver. This is essentially imperceptible distortion (0.1% THD in power). Also shown is the impulse response which is very clean - piano actually sounds like a piano is right there in the room. Getting back to the topic of good dispersion - I can walk around the room and I think the sweet spot can be as much as 30 deg off axis. I have tried an experiment and placed a Karlsonator in place of the Nautaloss and the sweet spot did appear to grow much wider- although I did not get a chance to do a polar measurement.

Maybe the Karlson aperture is the way to solve the wide dispersion question? It also lets you put multiple drivers behind the aperture without the vertical lobing normally seen in vertical 2 or 3 driver arrays.
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Last edited by xrk971; 24th February 2014 at 07:14 PM.
 
Old 24th February 2014, 07:11 PM   #195
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I have the TG9 in my holographic soundbar running from 150HZ to 7kHZ, and although it needed more baffle step correction than I had guessed (should have actually measured it), It sounds superb. I have the TC9 drivers in closed box cabinets hooked up to my computer, running wideband with the bass turned up on the NAD brand preamp. They sound superb too. The systems are too different for a comparison, but I've read that others couldn't hear a difference. The top end of the TG is a little bit smoother than the TC in the graphs, but when you consider the errors of the rest of the reproduction process and room acoustics, the difference is very small IMO. I very much doubt if there is any difference in power handling capability between the TG and the TC drivers.

The EE's at Dolby (I was an Engineering Assistant there for 3 years) told me that published graphs are usually done with the driver mounted on a wall inside of an anechoic chamber, so there is no baffle step issue. In the real world baffle step is a very real issue that needs to be taken into account in the design process. Any driver will roll off at the low end when the baffle runs out of surface area to reinforce propagation of the acoustic sound waves.
 
Old 24th February 2014, 07:53 PM   #196
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Anybody got measurements of the 5 different TC/G-9 models Peerless offers?

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Old 24th February 2014, 07:57 PM   #197
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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I did not know they have that many Tc9 models? I think that means paper or glass and 4 ohms vs 8 ohms vs 16 ohms for one variety? I bet the 4 vs 8 vs 16 ohms doesn't change the shape of the freq response or polar response much. I would love to get a 4 ohm TC9 but those are not offered by PE or Madisound. Are you thinking of trying the TC9 or TG9 now Markus? For the low price, you can get them all and test them out.
 
Old 24th February 2014, 07:59 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Anybody got measurements of the 5 different TC/G-9 models Peerless offers?

Full Range | Tymphany
I hadn't heard that there were 5 different models of TG/C 9 drivers. I had noticed that the TG driver had been modified over time, but no indication that the mods affected the performance. I think the earlier version had a double magnet so would not interfere with a CRT TV set. There are slight differences in the 8 ohm vs. 4 ohm versions of these drivers. The 8 ohm had slightly better high frequency extension. Last time I checked, only Madisound had the 8 ohm version of one driver or the other. Last I heard, both of these drivers were being made in India.
 
Old 24th February 2014, 08:29 PM   #199
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They've had a few on & off, but not all have been easily available in all regions. Roger Russell used / uses the shielded version for his arrays which are quite rare in NA.

FWIW, I've heard both the fiberglass & paper versions back to back, and there was surprisingly little difference between them that I could discern. Make of that what you will; they were in simple sealed boxes, nearfield, on the end of Arcam amplifiers. Can't remember the source; CD based & reasonable quality off-hand. I could probably persuade myself that the paper cone model had a slightly more linear response, but this wasn't blind & while I trust my ears, I don't trust my brain: from an engineering perspective I'm not entirely sold on fiberglass as a cone material, so there's potential bias there. OTOH, I happen to think the fiberglass model looks better. As far as a drive unit can be called good looking of course (Aoife O'Donovan they are not).

Both were very good. Arguably a bit more 'hi-fi' than, say, the FF85wk which is more or less its size equivalent -possibly a little more consistent off the vertical axis also, but again, this wasn't blind & that folded dustcap on the current wk models doesn't look quite right to me. IMO, the Fostex has it for micro-resonant behaviour / DDR, but the Vifas are a little more consistent to slightly higher levels (relatively speaking).
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Last edited by Scottmoose; 24th February 2014 at 08:32 PM.
 
Old 24th February 2014, 09:01 PM   #200
thedoc is offline thedoc  United States
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The Faital full rangers do sound quite nice. I have 3 3FE25 that I use in a trifield setup in my bedroom. The way they image is fantastic.
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Last edited by thedoc; 24th February 2014 at 09:03 PM.
 

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