Now, try to get yer most beloved 4" design sound as an elephant with stomach problems...
True. That would be an appropriately sized challenge.
Alas, I haven't got any designs using 4in drivers that are especially beloved to me. With my serious hat on for a moment (just for a moment -longer would be a stretch), my personal taste in speakers is just that. Most of the designs I do are for other people, not me. They reflect the need they were designed to serve as best I can, but that is not necessarily the same as what I would choose to use. I'd stand by most as being good examples of what they are given the design criteria (we all have our failures too), and I can often enjoy them within that context. But as I say, not quite the same thing.
IEC baffle would be fine, but nearfield should also work. We aren't looking at anything beyond a few mm beyond the cone in this condition. Both would be even better for a 3 way contrast if power levels were kept the same
Low, medium and high level, before, naked and IEC would be the Bee's knee
True. That would be an appropriately sized challenge.
Alas, I haven't got any designs using 4in drivers that are especially beloved to me. With my serious hat on for a moment (just for a moment -longer would be a stretch), my personal taste in speakers is just that. Most of the designs I do are for other people, not me. They reflect the need they were designed to serve as best I can, but that is not necessarily the same as what I would choose to use. I'd stand by most as being good examples of what they are given the design criteria (we all have our failures too), and I can often enjoy them within that context. But as I say, not quite the same thing.
Now I would love to know what your ideal speaker would look like.
Drat. Now I'll have to think (always worrying, usually dangerous).
OK, assuming cost no object and I had the room to do it, I'd be after multiple 15in HE woofers per channel with compression mid-tweets. Probably Altec gear or derived from that. I'd have to while away an idle hour dreaming before I decided on specifics. Amplification by Pass or McIntosh, class A. Source any quality CD transport or suitable HDD / solid-state device with FLAC feeding my friend Nick's Longdog Audio DAC (or I'd get Nick to design a class A SS amp). Wire solid copper flash-plated with silver. Not for the 'sound' -I don't buy into that twaddle, but because under technical testing that tended to come out as top performer. Providing it's solid core, voltage drop is minimal & L+C are well controlled I'm not all that bothered though.
That's probably what I'd go with. Maybe. You don't ultimately know until you try it do you? And how many of us will ever be lucky enough to be in that position.
OK, assuming cost no object and I had the room to do it, I'd be after multiple 15in HE woofers per channel with compression mid-tweets. Probably Altec gear or derived from that. I'd have to while away an idle hour dreaming before I decided on specifics. Amplification by Pass or McIntosh, class A. Source any quality CD transport or suitable HDD / solid-state device with FLAC feeding my friend Nick's Longdog Audio DAC (or I'd get Nick to design a class A SS amp). Wire solid copper flash-plated with silver. Not for the 'sound' -I don't buy into that twaddle, but because under technical testing that tended to come out as top performer. Providing it's solid core, voltage drop is minimal & L+C are well controlled I'm not all that bothered though.
That's probably what I'd go with. Maybe. You don't ultimately know until you try it do you? And how many of us will ever be lucky enough to be in that position.
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Now, that's a way forward ain't it? I'll maybe not going your way in all aspects but the intentions are familiar
Regards
Had the Altec setup. Too damn big for my room as the box was almost 12ft^3:wow:
Pass amps: check
Oppo playing dsd and other hi res: check
gotta figure out the damn speakers.
playing with JBL4424 clone idea using td12 woofer, but they are kinda power hungry little suckers,even being HE.
Calibration curves differ because of capsule tolerances. A calibration file removes those differences. So again, why is "Even calibrated hardto trust over 10k"?
Furthermore, a constant shift of 0.5-1dB causes one to distrust over 10kHz? That notion doesn't make sense to me. It's normal for drivers to differ by the same amount or more. Does that make you distrust the driver?
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Shown is the measurement with microphone calibration curve - no more than 1 dB correction. Still not a believer?
Attachments
I agree that when we are talking about 10 to 15 dB peaks above 10 kHz, a 1 or 2 dB correction in the response is not an issue to revealing the magnitude of said peaks. The capsules used are most likely derived from Panasonic WM-61A's which are very flat (+/-1 dB) to begin with. Amazing manufacturing tolerances. I think Siegfried Linkwitz uses them (uncalibrated) for this reason. System Test
Believe what you want. I have 1 PE, and 3 Beringer, all calibrated, none would i bet on above 10k, they are all running on the ragged edge up there. They might give an idea but that is all.
dave
+1
One of my "omni" (and quite good, actually) test mics is close to ruler flat at 90 degrees but rises over 4dB (with obvious peaking to boot) directly on axis. A difference of 1/8 inch in where the capsule is placed in the mic body can make a dramatic difference in response over 10kHz. Disassemble/re-assemble the mic even once and if you don't get it back precisely as it was before the calibration curve becomes meaningless, and I've seen examples where a capsule shifted in the body just from "rough handling" (ie. shipping). I have a "standard tweeter" that I keep squirreled away and use for nothing but verifying that mics (both test and recording) are working properly. It does not take much to mess things up when you're dealing with 1/2 inch wavelengths . . .
I agree that rough handling and disassembling a calibrated mic voids its calibration. However, if you have a new mic that has been carefully handled and has a recent calibration, the data is the data. Given that the TC9FD measurement closely resembles the factory measurement, gives me some confidence that it is working right. I don't know why there are all these arguments posed for why we can't believe the peaks that we see or lack of peaks that we don't see above 10 kHz?
So far they include:
- driver break-in
- no mic calibration
- not done in an anechoic chamber
- mic calibrated but don't trust above 10kHz
"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes
Let's keep the discussion on track to being objective. I welcome anyone to present measurements showing that the A7 doesn't have peaks or that the TC9FD has peaks. I would also like to see some harmonic distortion measurements of the A7 for comparison with the TC9FD.
If you want to say you don't believe your mic and its calibration, show me a measurement where it is wrong, and by how much? And compared to what? Another reference mic or a reference driver?
It is not my goal to impugn one driver or another - I am looking for the best value in a high performance driver. We should have all the data, the more the better.
So far they include:
- driver break-in
- no mic calibration
- not done in an anechoic chamber
- mic calibrated but don't trust above 10kHz
"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes
Let's keep the discussion on track to being objective. I welcome anyone to present measurements showing that the A7 doesn't have peaks or that the TC9FD has peaks. I would also like to see some harmonic distortion measurements of the A7 for comparison with the TC9FD.
If you want to say you don't believe your mic and its calibration, show me a measurement where it is wrong, and by how much? And compared to what? Another reference mic or a reference driver?
It is not my goal to impugn one driver or another - I am looking for the best value in a high performance driver. We should have all the data, the more the better.
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