Been really looking hard at full range drivers for a build since they are so much cheaper of an option than going the route of multiple drivers PLUS crossover/miniDSP and so many more amplifiers....
However, I was originally looking at them for music...now, however, I am starting to wonder how they would be for movies....I am still stuck on the conventional thought that it just wont be enough for those loud hard hitting scenes in movies like Jurasic Park, The Dark Knight, Super 8....
Am I 100% wrong?
However, I was originally looking at them for music...now, however, I am starting to wonder how they would be for movies....I am still stuck on the conventional thought that it just wont be enough for those loud hard hitting scenes in movies like Jurasic Park, The Dark Knight, Super 8....
Am I 100% wrong?
it depends of room , power and your habits (regarding SPL)
I like FRs , but I'm spoiled - bass helper is a must
see example , these are of friend of mine : Hifish's Sonido speakers - diyaudio.rs
I like FRs , but I'm spoiled - bass helper is a must
see example , these are of friend of mine : Hifish's Sonido speakers - diyaudio.rs
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Joined 2009
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I built a set of FRs for my home theatre. In the end I stripped them out and replaced them with 2-way and 3-way commercial floorstanders. The reason was that I find my choice in movies is not the same as my choice in music. Movies aren't necessarily hi-fi and I look to get some real ooomph from movie sound tracks. I believe FRs can achieve ooomph, but not the smallish simple one's I built. I'm very satisfied with the floorstanders; there are a number of relatively inexpensive commercial offerings that I think would be a better option than DIY FRs - and I know some people will say otherwise. As usual, you'll have to find what suits you. My home theatre is in my basement where I have room to play. A set of floorstanders is not an easy proposition for the average living room.
Bigun really hit the mark.
It depends on the music, the movie, and volume levels you need for enjoyment.
I love the superior intelligibility of a full range driver and the "little" details provided.
On one hand, I like bass impact (that doesn't happen from a single 6" with subwoofer). To me I need more cone area for 80-200hz.
But on the other hand, I like rumble (a 6" with subwoofer works here).
So I rearrange often. For action movies, I prefer dual 15's crossed at 750 to a compression driver. But I'm a bass head.
Or run a full range driver wide open with a sub (6db crossed or it may have inductance to roll off above 200hz naturally).
It's up to you. But if you want higher volumes, I'd try an Audio Nirvana an12 or an15 (with sub) and equalize it to how you want it to sound.
Norman
It depends on the music, the movie, and volume levels you need for enjoyment.
I love the superior intelligibility of a full range driver and the "little" details provided.
On one hand, I like bass impact (that doesn't happen from a single 6" with subwoofer). To me I need more cone area for 80-200hz.
But on the other hand, I like rumble (a 6" with subwoofer works here).
So I rearrange often. For action movies, I prefer dual 15's crossed at 750 to a compression driver. But I'm a bass head.
Or run a full range driver wide open with a sub (6db crossed or it may have inductance to roll off above 200hz naturally).
It's up to you. But if you want higher volumes, I'd try an Audio Nirvana an12 or an15 (with sub) and equalize it to how you want it to sound.
Norman
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Add another vote to the "hell ya, but...." column
As always, the room will have a lot to say about what minimum requirements will be for "realistic" bass and visceral impact across the full bandwidth, particularly for those wanting to emulate the full THX immersion effect - which is something that not all folks necessarily want.
Personally, the last theatrical release that I attended (Prometheus 3D - living proof of relativity of time - it felt like 6 hours) gave me a pounding headache by the end of the trailer for the new Dark Knight film - and I soon remembered why it'd been at least 5 years since my last cinematic "treat". Does it sound like I enjoy being pummeled by over 2 1/2 hours averaging 90dB+ SPL and peaking at over 110? I can easily achieve that by walking onto the production shop floor - or maybe it was the complete lack of captivation by the story? but I digress.
In moderate sized rooms, and with the bass management of current surround receivers, and presumably HTPCs, the bandwidth content to the main front row and surrounds can easily be tailored to within the limits of smaller single driver FR speakers. The number and location of "subs" which can be XO's well above 100Hz in many cases, is up to you (and the room) - but multiples of any size work best.
I happen to be using Mark Audio Alpair7 and 6Ms, along with a pair of corner located woofers each using dual 7" drivers - the room is approx 320ft^2, and I generally listen well below 80dB average at distance of 11ft from the front row. It works for me.
As always, the room will have a lot to say about what minimum requirements will be for "realistic" bass and visceral impact across the full bandwidth, particularly for those wanting to emulate the full THX immersion effect - which is something that not all folks necessarily want.
Personally, the last theatrical release that I attended (Prometheus 3D - living proof of relativity of time - it felt like 6 hours) gave me a pounding headache by the end of the trailer for the new Dark Knight film - and I soon remembered why it'd been at least 5 years since my last cinematic "treat". Does it sound like I enjoy being pummeled by over 2 1/2 hours averaging 90dB+ SPL and peaking at over 110? I can easily achieve that by walking onto the production shop floor - or maybe it was the complete lack of captivation by the story? but I digress.
In moderate sized rooms, and with the bass management of current surround receivers, and presumably HTPCs, the bandwidth content to the main front row and surrounds can easily be tailored to within the limits of smaller single driver FR speakers. The number and location of "subs" which can be XO's well above 100Hz in many cases, is up to you (and the room) - but multiples of any size work best.
I happen to be using Mark Audio Alpair7 and 6Ms, along with a pair of corner located woofers each using dual 7" drivers - the room is approx 320ft^2, and I generally listen well below 80dB average at distance of 11ft from the front row. It works for me.
For bass impact, the ones that hit you hard and fast in the chest, we are actually talking about lower midrange. We want a straight frequency response down to 80Hz. A slight bump between 80-100Hz would hit even harder.
To do these things, we want a cone that is stiff and weighs more than the 10g that most 8" fullrange cones are. These cones are not going to have treble extension. So forget a 4" fullrange unit. It may be OK, but compare it to a Scanspeak Illuminator 7" with 9mm xmax and the experience will be completely different.
I would also go with a sealed enclosure, and the fullrange units don't like that.
Bottom line, it can be done, but the demands of high efficiency fullrange and visceral movie experience are at odds when it comes to speaker unit design.
To do these things, we want a cone that is stiff and weighs more than the 10g that most 8" fullrange cones are. These cones are not going to have treble extension. So forget a 4" fullrange unit. It may be OK, but compare it to a Scanspeak Illuminator 7" with 9mm xmax and the experience will be completely different.
I would also go with a sealed enclosure, and the fullrange units don't like that.
Bottom line, it can be done, but the demands of high efficiency fullrange and visceral movie experience are at odds when it comes to speaker unit design.
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I would say approximately 100-320Hz. From modern research, the impact from the bass units span the entire frequency spectrum, so even treble reproduction is important.
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p.s. I did find that with the floorstanders, I don't need multiple subs. They go deep enough on the surrounds and wings to give plenty of bass. Actually, I'm not even using a sub right now and haven't missed it for a couple of years (although I expect I will eventually put one back down there but it will have to big to justify itself).
I just watched Avengers Assemble and its PLENTY powerful enough through my Emkens. Impact and speed aplenty. It even scared the cat 
5 of them would probably kill you (and thats just moving them)
I think Bigun's AN project will be fun for movies as well. (Leave your drapes open and crank it so the neighbours can watch as well)
5 of them would probably kill you (and thats just moving them)
I think Bigun's AN project will be fun for movies as well. (Leave your drapes open and crank it so the neighbours can watch as well)
I recently watched Drive in surround with my two Mikasa's with FE126's as front speakers and used crappy Sonys for center and rear. and a Velodyne CHT12 as sub and must say I was blown away,... But that might be because the movie has such an incredible soundtrack to it. the continuous low frequency rumble and then the high voice of the song was just magic to me.
I will need to try it with something like Transformers (highway scene) or Final Destination 2 (highway Scene) or even the Ronin car chase scene to see how it works.
I'm actually looking forward to building a full range surround system now.
I will need to try it with something like Transformers (highway scene) or Final Destination 2 (highway Scene) or even the Ronin car chase scene to see how it works.
I'm actually looking forward to building a full range surround system now.
yea, its just that 2 ways require the extra expense to bet more than one driver pluss the crossover needs to be made....and if you go active you need two channel for each 2 way speaker....and if you are like me, then you use your sound system even for movies cause the built in speakers suck.
I like movies loud...but not as loud as others I have known....I only intend to run them above 80hz as I will run the sub below that....or even above 100 or so if I have to.
I am starting to wonder if Coaxials would be the better route...but I have heard that they are a little difficult to tame.
I like movies loud...but not as loud as others I have known....I only intend to run them above 80hz as I will run the sub below that....or even above 100 or so if I have to.
I am starting to wonder if Coaxials would be the better route...but I have heard that they are a little difficult to tame.
If cost is a concern, then you can do years of research and end up with a standard 5.1 surround sound system for movies. Those use five small fullrange speakers and a subwoofer. The 3" fullrange units don't have much bass extension, with rolloff starting in the midrange. The subwoofer is typically crossed over at 125Hz, you can even hear it at 500Hz, meaning the sound is localized. It will excite all manner of room modes. It will sound terrible to those who have heard a proper setup. I wouldn't cross the subwoofer past 60Hz. The system would have to sound great without the subwoofer, and the subwoofer would be added for special effect.
Coaxials use crossovers. They are a type of multi-way speaker, the tweeter is just fitted into the woofer.
Coaxials use crossovers. They are a type of multi-way speaker, the tweeter is just fitted into the woofer.
hmm...........
I'm thinking 8" drivers across the front, with baffle step. And sub ideally between the fronts, not shoved off to a corner.
That should do well.
And yes, to me, the 10:1 compression plus mid-priced receiver often makes ultra highs sound harsh (breaking glass anyone ?), so extension past 10khz may not be needed.
To me movies are about intelligibility, little details, and bass slam.
Rumble is needed also too to create tension or make you jump.
But bass impact requires cone area. I came across this discovery when swithing from (same 80hz subwoofer) from a small 3 ways (8") to a large 3-way (15"), and later moved on to dual 15's a side (still cross 80hz to the same subs). Impact, like a bass drum, is a fun dynamic thing.
I'm soon to try a 12" worth of cone area per side (multiple full ranges) and that should give me some impact. 8" driver (atotal area of one) was good for movies for me, but could sound like a toy listening to bass music even with a subwoofer (floyd, nails, songs like click click boom from Fast and the Furious). That's why I'd swap out systems sometime twice a week. Lately I've been on a vocal kick, so I've stayed away from the 750hz crossover point 2-ways.
Norman
I'm thinking 8" drivers across the front, with baffle step. And sub ideally between the fronts, not shoved off to a corner.
That should do well.
And yes, to me, the 10:1 compression plus mid-priced receiver often makes ultra highs sound harsh (breaking glass anyone ?), so extension past 10khz may not be needed.
To me movies are about intelligibility, little details, and bass slam.
Rumble is needed also too to create tension or make you jump.
But bass impact requires cone area. I came across this discovery when swithing from (same 80hz subwoofer) from a small 3 ways (8") to a large 3-way (15"), and later moved on to dual 15's a side (still cross 80hz to the same subs). Impact, like a bass drum, is a fun dynamic thing.
I'm soon to try a 12" worth of cone area per side (multiple full ranges) and that should give me some impact. 8" driver (atotal area of one) was good for movies for me, but could sound like a toy listening to bass music even with a subwoofer (floyd, nails, songs like click click boom from Fast and the Furious). That's why I'd swap out systems sometime twice a week. Lately I've been on a vocal kick, so I've stayed away from the 750hz crossover point 2-ways.
Norman
cost isnt neccesarily a concern in the fact that I dont have it....its more of a....I dont want to neccesarily spend it if there is a better option for cheaper....hence the reason I am here.
in our current living room space is limited so I cant go BIG....I tried convincing the wife but it was a no go....atleast I get my subs....
so the other option was to build some better bookshelfs with either coax,fr, or a 6-8" and a good tweeter. I was looking at that route and going active crossover but I simply cannot justify the massive amount of amplifiers I would need to go full active unless I went the route of a phantom center and only had active in the LCR or LR(with phantom center) and just keep some cheaper bookshelfs for rear speakers....
im just "frugal"
in our current living room space is limited so I cant go BIG....I tried convincing the wife but it was a no go....atleast I get my subs....
so the other option was to build some better bookshelfs with either coax,fr, or a 6-8" and a good tweeter. I was looking at that route and going active crossover but I simply cannot justify the massive amount of amplifiers I would need to go full active unless I went the route of a phantom center and only had active in the LCR or LR(with phantom center) and just keep some cheaper bookshelfs for rear speakers....
im just "frugal"
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