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New speakers have no WAF - looking for a new design - but what about sound?
New speakers have no WAF - looking for a new design - but what about sound?
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Old 18th September 2012, 01:19 AM   #31
Tias is offline Tias  New Zealand
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Thanks Chris!

Yes, I am quite lucky

I'm not a fan of grilles really, think I'll leave them bare.
Now I need to find me a supplier for an FH3 kit in the wood I want

Ts
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Old 18th September 2012, 02:25 AM   #32
PeteMcK is offline PeteMcK
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re: "She likes listening to music (almost) as much as I do' - so does mine, unfortunately it's not the same music....
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Old 18th September 2012, 02:38 AM   #33
Tias is offline Tias  New Zealand
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Almost afraid to ask what she likes then,...
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Old 18th September 2012, 06:39 AM   #34
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tias View Post
Thanks Chris!

Yes, I am quite lucky

make sure she hears that frequently

Quote:


I'm not a fan of grilles really, think I'll leave them bare.
Now I need to find me a supplier for an FH3 kit in the wood I want

Ts

Fair enough about the grilles, but if I'm inferring correctly that you mean "solid wood", might I suggest a quality plywood & veneer to taste? For something as small as the microFonkens that Bernie has built for Dave, solids have been can be fine (so far), but I'd worry about long term stability of panels as wide as in the FH3
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Last edited by chrisb; 18th September 2012 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 18th September 2012, 07:04 AM   #35
Tias is offline Tias  New Zealand
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@chrisb My knowledge about wood is very limited. Would it make a difference in sound when using plywood?
How do you mean stability? would they start to warp? or just crumble?
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Old 18th September 2012, 05:01 PM   #36
Kindhornman is offline Kindhornman  United States
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Tias,
Most speaker enclosures are made of MDF wood these days and not because it is cheaper than plywood. Plywood unless it is of high quality and therefore price can cause problems with buzzes and delamination. When I use plywood I use only Baltic Birth that is imported as it has much better qualities than any domestic plywood in the States. The layers are much thinner and of better quality and the wood doesn't delaminate. MDF is very dense and has none of those problems. It glues very well and also is very flat and is easy to veneer to. Not that veneering is easy in itself, but it can be done if you take your time and are very careful. I'm sure that many here would help you get through design and building of your cabinets.

Steven
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Old 18th September 2012, 05:39 PM   #37
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Tias,
Most speaker enclosures are made of MDF wood these days and not because it is cheaper than plywood. Plywood unless it is of high quality and therefore price can cause problems with buzzes and delamination. When I use plywood I use only Baltic Birth that is imported as it has much better qualities than any domestic plywood in the States. The layers are much thinner and of better quality and the wood doesn't delaminate. MDF is very dense and has none of those problems. It glues very well and also is very flat and is easy to veneer to. Not that veneering is easy in itself, but it can be done if you take your time and are very careful. I'm sure that many here would help you get through design and building of your cabinets.

Steven

I might suggest that the first 2 sentences above are contradictory, and have been on record here for years of recommending "quality" (high ply count) plywood over MDF, for sonic reasons. Yes MDF is definitely cheaper, but considering the total time and other materials involved in a DIY build using even moderately priced drivers, that differential could be swamped by other factors.

There are some excellent quality plywoods manufactured in USA - indeed after exclusively using Russian manufactured Baltic Birch for almost 10years, but suffering occasional supply shortages due to weather conditions in the harvesting areas, and more importantly significant deterioration in quality over the past 2 years (delaminations, core voids, severe splintering / chipping), I've switched to a domestic product - Murphy Hardwood Plywood of Oregon. Yes, it's even more costly than the BB, but superior in every respect. Then of course there are the premium architectural grade products like States Apple Ply, Depending on your aesthetic taste for treatment of the exposed cores, some of these might not need post veneering, which could offset material costs - and at over $150/sheet 3/4" every bit helps.

For example, some gorgeous work by Jon Parkhurst

Click the image to open in full size.

ApplePly
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Old 18th September 2012, 06:04 PM   #38
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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New speakers have no WAF - looking for a new design - but what about sound?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
Most speaker enclosures are made of MDF wood these days and not because it is cheaper than plywood. Plywood unless it is of high quality and therefore price can cause problems with buzzes and delamination. When I use plywood I use only Baltic Birth that is imported as it has much better qualities than any domestic plywood in the States. The layers are much thinner and of better quality and the wood doesn't delaminate. MDF is very dense and has none of those problems.
It is unfortunate that MDF is so prevelant... and it is because it is cheap, bioth to buy and to work (but not necessarily to work with, the dust is particularily noxious).

I personally feel that MDF is not a suitable material to build high quality speaker boxes from. It is not very stiff, and hs issues with energy storage. Much of that from its homogenous nature -- a plywood made from a laminate of very thin MDF sheets handily outperforms a solid sheet of the same thickness. The energy storage is particularily pernious having a big negative impact on the DDR (downward dynamic range) of a loudspeaker.

High quality plywood -- determined by lack of voids and lots of plies (we have just recently switched from Baltic Birch to higher quality Murphy Ply made in Oregon), is a much better material from a sonic soundpoint. If expense be damned, one can go to stranded bamboo plywood -- of a completely different kind of construction than typical ply, it needs more care & consideration with fabrication, but can be finished as is.

Use of MDF is strongly discouraged in both Mikasa & in FH3. Ben (Sound with Style) uses, i believe, a quality plywood made from hoop pine (not really a pine). Being lighter than MDF one of th eimmediate benefits is that it costs less to ship.

dave
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Old 18th September 2012, 06:18 PM   #39
chrisb is offline chrisb
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broken link for Jon's work in BB ply
Click the image to open in full size.

see the TanKen thread for more photos of this gorgeous build
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Old 18th September 2012, 07:32 PM   #40
Kindhornman is offline Kindhornman  United States
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There is more than just stiffness at work here. There is also mass involved. I won't argue that plywood isn't stiffer per thickness but there is also the ratio of stiffness to thickness involved. I rarely would see plywood in 1" thickness though you could glue multiple sheets together. So to say that plywood is superior just doesn't really answer the question, that is an incomplete answer.
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