If I read the above correctly, you're suggesting that high(er) mass is a desirable goal itself in enclosure design. The practicality of building and moving larger boxes around aside, there are many here among us who feel differently.
We use 1" plywood frequently in our commercial work - I'd consider it overkill for enclosures for small fullrange speakers - among other things it would certainly mean extra work for relieving of rear side of driver cutout for something like the FE126En contemplated for this particular build (FH3)
Indeeed. Less mass is a desirable trait.
The generalized metric is that it takes >1.25" of MDF to match the stiffness of 18mm of good plywood.
dave
Chrisb,
You would be correct that I think that higher mass does have an advantage. But if you are going to compare apples to apples it is hard without knowing an entire design. This would include all internal bracing and the resonant tuning of each panel. If you are just looking at weight then I go along with you and if you are making portable enclosures I would never use MDF. But as far as the sound of an enclosure and the emination of sound the physics get more complicated truly. You would have to look at the emmissive qualities of the cabinet walls in each configuration. Neither one of us can make blanket statements about a cabinet just based on the outer dimensions alone.
You would be correct that I think that higher mass does have an advantage. But if you are going to compare apples to apples it is hard without knowing an entire design. This would include all internal bracing and the resonant tuning of each panel. If you are just looking at weight then I go along with you and if you are making portable enclosures I would never use MDF. But as far as the sound of an enclosure and the emination of sound the physics get more complicated truly. You would have to look at the emmissive qualities of the cabinet walls in each configuration. Neither one of us can make blanket statements about a cabinet just based on the outer dimensions alone.
Well i can certainly speak about the FH3, the enclosure in question. Use (good) plywood.
dave
Thanks Kindhornman, Chris and Dave!
Your little discussion actually explained a lot to me that I didn't know about wood. Still a little confused, but getting there.
In short, is quality plywood always better than MDF in regards to sound and stiffness, but it just costs more?
Are there any advantages to using MDF except price and ease of working with (not thinking about the noxious dust
)?
I have to say I've never been a fan of MDF in regards to what it looks like.
Had a look at the Appleply site and must say I like the way it looks.
I would want my FH3's to be very light in colour if not high gloss white (overdone?)
I'll contact Ben at Sound with Style and ask what kind of plywood they use.
He already got back to me about price, it would be around $500 to get an FH3 flatpack sent to me. Sounds reasonable to me.
Your little discussion actually explained a lot to me that I didn't know about wood. Still a little confused, but getting there.
In short, is quality plywood always better than MDF in regards to sound and stiffness, but it just costs more?
Are there any advantages to using MDF except price and ease of working with (not thinking about the noxious dust
)?I have to say I've never been a fan of MDF in regards to what it looks like.
Had a look at the Appleply site and must say I like the way it looks.
I would want my FH3's to be very light in colour if not high gloss white (overdone?)
I'll contact Ben at Sound with Style and ask what kind of plywood they use.
He already got back to me about price, it would be around $500 to get an FH3 flatpack sent to me. Sounds reasonable to me.
and as the guy at Planet10 who's built more than a couple of pairs of the enclosure in question (FH3), as well as numerous other horns, MLTLs, BR, various vented, car audio subs etc, including directly comparing identical builds of MDF and BB plywood, I've reached my own conclusions as to the sonic benefits of the latter
our thoughts on that should be pretty clear by now, but just to emphasize; '"yes"
it makes for a great substrate for veneering / plastic laminating, and some folks like a painted or even natural lacquer finish (think glossy kraft paper shopping bag)Are there any advantages to using MDF except price and ease of working with (not thinking about the noxious dust
A natural clear coat on the veneer can look very nice - particularly if a warmer NC lacquer or oil based varnish is used as opposed to water based urethanes
A pro grade high gloss finish of any color is certainly doable, but very time consuming - frankly you might be better served post laminating with plastic (Formica / Arborite / Wilsonart - or whatever brands are locally available)
His site lists material as hardwood marine ply, and I thought I read somewhere the species of face veneer as Hoop Pine - he can best answer that question, as well as perhaps have some photos of the material with a natural top coat finish. I'm personally fond of NC lacquer in a 15` sheen.
Hey thanks Chris for putting it into newbie words for me, that made it so much clearer.
I will contact Dave today and yes some photos would be great.
I don't mind it being time consuming for the high gloss finish because plastic laminating is out for me, not sure why but feels like a big nono for me,.. Probably because of my dad, he never wanted anything plastic if it could be done better a different way.
I got the music/good sound bug from him as well.
He recently bought some Martin Logans, and it might be in my head but I think my monsters sound better
I will contact Dave today and yes some photos would be great.
I don't mind it being time consuming for the high gloss finish because plastic laminating is out for me, not sure why but feels like a big nono for me,.. Probably because of my dad, he never wanted anything plastic if it could be done better a different way.
I got the music/good sound bug from him as well.
He recently bought some Martin Logans, and it might be in my head but I think my monsters sound better
Not sure if I should start a new thread or not, but here it goes.
When I take the FE126's out of these Mikasa cabinets and put them in the FH3's.
What would be a suitable replacement for the FE126's in the Mikasa?
I wont get rid of the cabinets, I'll put them in my office, but I'm keen to 'experiment' with different drivers in it (after I repainted it)
Would the Alpair-7 be a good choice?
When I take the FE126's out of these Mikasa cabinets and put them in the FH3's.
What would be a suitable replacement for the FE126's in the Mikasa?
I wont get rid of the cabinets, I'll put them in my office, but I'm keen to 'experiment' with different drivers in it (after I repainted it)
Would the Alpair-7 be a good choice?
If you thinking is going in that direction why not just put the A7 in the FH3? That would sort any thin bass issues -- if you have the power my feeling is that A.x is a better driver in the FH3 than the FE126.
dave
Yes, that is usually the case. That the FH3 happily accepts many drivers (but each needs a specific damping scheme and boundry reinforcement to tune the bass) makes it very unusual.
dave
oh wow, those images didn't show up first.
That is some nice work Dave!
I'll sound pretty simple now, but what are those white dots for, I've read something about Enabling them? Is that what they do, and what does that mean really?
Sorry for all the questions...
And thanks for the heads up for the Alpair being better in the FH3.
it's now hooked up to a Marantz SR3500 so the power wont be an issue (I hope).
That is some nice work Dave!
I'll sound pretty simple now, but what are those white dots for, I've read something about Enabling them? Is that what they do, and what does that mean really?
Sorry for all the questions...
And thanks for the heads up for the Alpair being better in the FH3.
it's now hooked up to a Marantz SR3500 so the power wont be an issue (I hope).
Questions are good. The white spots are the visible part of EnABL. No one really knows how it works, but it increases DDR (downward dynamic range), which has the audible benefit of better imaging, greater detail, less noise covering up and mooshing the space between notes... There are lots of people that will tell you it can't possibly work, but that is not the people buying their 2nd, 3rd or more drivers because they appreciate the benefit.
The cosmetic aspect is simply a bonus that my artistic side has exploited. The Fostex white cone and the pretreatment allow for some pretty dramatic colur schemes. You can see more here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planet-10-hifi/213294-its-not-easy-being-green-just-pictures.html
EL70 is also a good choice, less money and fits within a smaller shipping budget (at least from Canada), and on a real tight budget the sale price (Madisound) on tan CHP70.2 makes it a no brainer (althou it is purposely shelved down at the top, which i don't like -- CHP70 (the original) does not suffer and hopefully CHP70.3 will fix that)
dave
man, those things look amazing.
I found the thread explaining more about it,... Might have to send you guys an email about a quote soon. very interesting.
I don't know how the EL70 compares to the Alpair, but have to say, the alpair looks a hell of a lot better in my opinion. Looks do matter as well.
I really like the more subtle design you have. the copper on orange alpair and the natural and black fostex,... tasty.
I found the thread explaining more about it,... Might have to send you guys an email about a quote soon. very interesting.
I don't know how the EL70 compares to the Alpair, but have to say, the alpair looks a hell of a lot better in my opinion. Looks do matter as well.
I really like the more subtle design you have. the copper on orange alpair and the natural and black fostex,... tasty.
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