Driver reccomendations for a new full-range build.

[nonsuchpro]

Hey all.
I'm looking to build entry-mid level full-range bass-reflex speakers using 6 1/2" or 8" drivers. I'm looking to spend no more than $400-500 for the pair. My choices so far have been the Audio Nirvana super series cast 6 or 8, Tang Band W8 1808/1772, Dayton PS220/180 and the Fostex FE206En. I'm sure there's others out there as well which I would love some recommendations if better than the ones I listed in my price range.

One question,
I am augmenting the low end with a sub, would 6 1/2" be a better choice for clarity and possibly louder highs? It is crucial that the drivers produce a strong signal to at least 16k+. I realize they all say they will do 20k.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Melon Head]

If you chose Audio Nirvana then I would definitely go with the 8" instead of 6.5", however the other drivers I can't comment as every speaker is different.

 

[zman01]

Fostex FE206en works better in a horn - it is not very suitable for BR.

You might consider the Mark Audio Alpair 12P - couple of limks from the MA forum:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/210283-alpair-12p-gen-2-paper-cone.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/217555-alpair12p-gen2-standmount-speakers.html

I have a pair, but haven't started to break in yet - so would not be able to comment on the sound. Initial feedback is favorable though.

 

[fakeout]

I don't even understand what's going on here. If you're going to use a subwoofer, why wouldn't you use 3" full range drivers instead?

(Actually, from what I read, I'd prefer woofer/tweeter but that's another topic. Besides, I read stereo woofers > single sub.)

 

[castlesteve]

Alpair 7 is a good choice with really good highs and mids.

 

[nakamoomin]

I don't even understand what's going on here. If you're going to use a subwoofer, why wouldn't you use 3" full range drivers instead?

(Actually, from what I read, I'd prefer woofer/tweeter but that's another topic. Besides, I read stereo woofers > single sub.)

2nd that. If you go for the 8" TangBand consider relieving the top-end with a tweeter.

If you're going to use a sub consider the 3" W3-1878 which can be crossed quite low (60-80 depending on desired SPL). There are many good 3" FRs that will integrate nicely with a sub.

3s are generally less beamy than 4 or 5 inchers but they go deep enough in the right enclosure to be sub-friendly. In addition they often sound sweet all the way up.

3 + Sub or 8 (or bigger) + tweeter is what I'd build. 8+Sub doesn't quite make sense. Check out Bob Brines' enclosures if you are looking for a good all-round speaker based on the 8in premium TBs (1772 / 1808)

 

[zman01]

+1 for castlesteve's suggestion on Alp 7 - as he has stated, the mid-range is really good, top is also well extended with very good dispersion. The separation of different instruments and the imaging is also top notch.

fakeout,

It's not that difficult to understand. How low would you cross a 3" driver? The OP has stated that he would like to augment the low end with a subwoofer, not helper woofers. So how high would you cross a sub? So, when we are talking about higher dynamic range an SPLs and crossing with a sub (80-110 Hz maybe), then a bigger driver like the Alp 10.2 or 12 can be considered. IIRC Bob Brines has experimented with the Alp 7.3 crossed at 110-120 Hz with bass helpers and it's worked out really well. What I have read from P10's experience and experiments, most of the 3" FR units were XO'ed around 300-333 Hz - a sub will not go that high up.

But agree, probably 6.5" is not entirely necessary here since we talking bass helper. And +1 to your suggestion on stereo subs.

Edit: Nakamoomin - I am not sure if a 3" will perform well at higher (90 dB SPLs) going down low as 60 Hz - especially in a smaller cab. What type of music are you considering? Can you share the details on the diver you are referring to?

Lot of the 4" drivers aren't beamy (MA Alp 7, CHR-70.2, CSS EL-70), yet offer good dispersion.

 

[nakamoomin]

The 3in from TB has an Xmax of 5mm. That's 10mm of linear stroke.. Couple that with a 10 liter or so BR tuned to 50 something Hz and you'll probably get all you need if you can relieve with a sub @ 75-100Hz.

There are some really nice 4 and even 5 inchers out there, you're absolutely right. But generally 4s and up are more beamy than 3s. I'm sure either of your suggestions would work nicely in a BR or TL with a Sub.

 

[planet10]

Hard to beat the Alpair 7.3 in this application. If you want to play louder, you can still end up with something very good with the Alpair 10.2 (if does give up some finesse to the A7, but unless you listen to one after the other wouldn't know).

I can't speak to the Audio Nirvanas, i have yet to hear any of the cast basket ones, the stamped ones i have heard are underwhelming.

dave

 

[LineSource]

If there is only one shared subwoofer, then the TB W8-1808 in a 4cuft MLTL tuned to 35-40Hz would be a good choice. A quick search will yield many positive comments for the W8-1808. Several well reviewed JAES papers proved that a listener can physically locate bass sources when much above 60Hz. We have the TB W8-1808 MLTL in our bedroom and are very satisfied with low-mid-high coherence. The treble is smooth to 12Khz, but has whizzer roll-a-coaster SPLs above this. We find that no baffle step compensation is necessary if the speaker is against the back wall.

If there are separate stereo woofers, then consider building a 3-way with a wide bandwidth midrange/fullrange with a Xover from the woofer ~120Hz, and a Xover ~6Khz to a 0.5" - 0.75"(Seas 19TFF1) dome tweeter. This arrangement can provide 20Hz-20KHz with single cone coherence over critical midrange, Doppler IMD below 40db, and smooth control directivity of high freqs to over 20Khz.

 

[planet10]

If there are separate stereo woofers, then consider building a 3-way with a wide bandwidth midrange/fullrange with a Xover from the woofer ~120Hz, and a Xover ~6Khz to a 0.5" - 0.75"(Seas 19TFF1) dome tweeter. This arrangement can provide 20Hz-20KHz with single cone coherence over critical midrange, Doppler IMD below 40db, and smooth control directivity of high freqs to over 20Khz.

With the Alpair 7 you won't need the tweeter and it will have more coherence.

dave

 

[Pano]

I cast a vote for the Seas Prestige FA22RCZ. A very good driver, beautifully engineered and built. You can't go wrong. Not well known, but those who own it, love it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[planet10]

I cast a vote for the Seas Prestige FA22RCZ. A very good driver, beautifully engineered and built. You can't go wrong. Not well known, but those who own it, love it.

I've had a pair for over a year haven't had a chance to do anything with them yet

dave

 

[Pano]

Try 'em Dave, you'll like 'em. They do well on OB on in a BR box.

 

[planet10]

Jesse won the pair Madisound donated for a door prize for diyFEST, I need to design a box for him.

dave

 

[opa1]

Please share the design with us. .

 

[Pano]

My buddy in London is using 4 of them. Each side, Left/Right has a pair in the Seas suggested box - two boxes per side stacked. One faces front, the other back.

Would love to see what Dave comes up with.

 

[opa1]

+1

 

[vinylkid58]

Jesse won the pair Madisound donated for a door prize for diyFEST, I need to design a box for him.

Good on Jesse, didn't see the Seas drivers. Go for the gusto, a 90 litre Petite Onken, 33Hz Fb.

jeff

 

[Melon Head]

I don't like the Seas much at all.
I find they are like listening to music with a blanket covering the drivers, but I would like to try modifying them if Dave or BudP can suggest what to do?