There are many good questions, i would be happy if the amplifiers and speakers woulnd cost more than 10 000 e, but for the right cause maybe a little bit more, dont think about the room, that can I make how I want, i'm thinkin about 40 m2 listening room.
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You mistake big driver for big power requirement. I would drive these with
a few watts.
Are you sure? Tube?
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I was a little bit hurry or drunk when i wrote that a ribbon would take care all the range, but 6 x 12/speaker seas sls little bit take a hit out from ribbon in the 60-350 hz area, baffle for those would be around 2,5x1,5 meters.
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Thats hard, where in hopefully in europe i can be sure about that? I know that you gain 3 db just adding an element, but how come you can drive huge speakers a tiny amplifier?
anywhere that the same laws of physics with which Nelson Pass is familiar apply
3db of what?, an element of what and where?, and to the last, there are many high efficiency drivers of large dimensions quite capable of very intense SPLs with less than a couple of watts
do i gain 3 dbs more if i ad one elment more?
Get a little bit of feeling that i´m know too little....Still i Have better sound about of 90% of you?
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I've tried MANY designs over the years, and concluded that it's how the speaker interacts with the room acoustics that is of major importance. In a typical living room, I believe a vertical line array may be the way to go. Floor to ceiling is best, but close to that is very good. Especially from 25HZ - 1kHZ. Maybe 12-15 4 or 5 inch drivers on each side, with 2 separate cabinets stacked, so they aren't so hard to move, if you ever move. Then you are stimulating the room acoustics from many locations on all three axis, so standing waves or comb filter effects from room acoustics would be minimal anywhere in the room. Anywhere there would be a cancellation from one or two sources, will get largely filled in by the presence of the other physical source locations. Plus the transient response of a 5 inch woofer is awesum sounding. This approach requires active EQ ahead of the poweramp if you want it to be acoustically flat down to 25 HZ (which I do). Not many recordings have energy below about 40HZ, but when they do it's awesum. Bass and kettle drums are way more fun when you reproduce down to 25HZ. Many movies these days have special effects that go that low, and it's really fun. It has a whole different psycho-acoustic effect on the brain. The biggest trick to using this approach is probably getting small drivers that have a long enough cone excursion, and for a reasonably price. So far it looks like Dayton has the best ones. Parts Express has them in the U.S. If I build another system, this is what I plan to do.
Small driver, high Xmax = high distortion. Just the reverse of the advantages you are looking for. Some are higher than others, but that is not how to go low as the OP is asking. To go low, you need big cones. My preference is for sealed boxes as I can get 25Hz from boxes that fit in my room. I place them on the floor against the front wall specifically to minimize their interaction with the room that one is looking for in the midrange by going OB. Different problem, different solution.
I have Daytons but I like my Peerless subs much better. They are no where NEAR flat measured in the room as I find those few recordings that do have low frequencies are boosted to stupidity. Of the Daytons I like the Reference better than the Titan III. If you head over to the sub forum, most there would laugh at these as babies. They are good enough for me and the Peerless have made a few jaws drop because it is not only a low note, but it is very low distortion.
I have Daytons but I like my Peerless subs much better. They are no where NEAR flat measured in the room as I find those few recordings that do have low frequencies are boosted to stupidity. Of the Daytons I like the Reference better than the Titan III. If you head over to the sub forum, most there would laugh at these as babies. They are good enough for me and the Peerless have made a few jaws drop because it is not only a low note, but it is very low distortion.
Right now I've got top of the line Peerless 12s in sealed boxes with active EQ flattening them acoustically to 20HZ (going up to 100HZ). It's real nice, but varies a bunch as you move around the room, plus subjectively it sounds sloppy compared to what I've heard 5 inch woofers do. Maybe my understanding of why is a work in progress. Pushing small drivers hard toward their Xmax would obviously cause audible distortion, which is why you want to have 10-20 in a vertical line array on each side. Ultimately it's about cone surface area and needed cone displacement. Roger Russel (retired head of acoustic research at McIntosh) has 24 3 inch drivers per side (running wideband so any FM distortion would be most audible) which he claims is the equivalent cone surface area of a 16 inch woofer on each side. He actively EQ's them to be flat to 20HZ, and claims to love how well it works. I'm a little skeptical about how loud they can go with those particular drivers (Xmax 3mm I think), which is why the Dayton 3-5 inch drivers (Xmax 5mm) seem like the right choice for below 1kHZ. The Daytons are not as good at the top end. I might use a Seas Millenium for above 1.4kHZ 4th order. Just some thoughts. I haven't actually done this so I could be wrong. It's just another way of getting low bass that has a different set of tradeoffs.
Roger Russel seems very thrilled with what he has (Google his name to find his website) so I'm very curious. Any speaker that interacts better with the room seems worth looking at. If you've done real world measurements with a calibrated mic and pink noise you know how damaging the room acoustics are likely to be. If you want rock concert levels, then maybe you need bigger drivers. From my experience, metal cone woofers sound significantly cleaner. I'm assuming it is because the cone doesn't flex (transient response). Maybe it's something else. .
Roger Russel seems very thrilled with what he has (Google his name to find his website) so I'm very curious. Any speaker that interacts better with the room seems worth looking at. If you've done real world measurements with a calibrated mic and pink noise you know how damaging the room acoustics are likely to be. If you want rock concert levels, then maybe you need bigger drivers. From my experience, metal cone woofers sound significantly cleaner. I'm assuming it is because the cone doesn't flex (transient response). Maybe it's something else. .
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