FR plan for desktop/nearfield? uFonken? mMar-Ken70? - diyAudio
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Old 15th August 2012, 10:18 PM   #1
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Default FR plan for desktop/nearfield? uFonken? mMar-Ken70?

I recently built a pair of Overnight Sensations for use on my computer desk. They sound good, though I think I can do better. Plus, DIY speaker building is kind of fun.

I've combed through a lot of the similar "desktop/nearfield suggestion" threads here, and lots of people recommend full range drivers for this purpose. In particular, I see lot of suggestions for "mFonkens" or "uFonkens" or "mMar-Kel70" as well as variations on these. I haven't been able to find a consistent set of information on these designs. I was hoping someone could maybe dumb it down for me, and give a simple overview (like the Overnight Sensations page I linked). I'm still effectively a complete newbie to DIY audio.

What I'm looking for is speakers that are no more than 7" wide, 9" deep, and maybe 12" tall. I could be flexible with depth and height, but 7" is really the max for depth.

Also, with the specific models named above, and small FR speakers in general, it's been hard to find what the bass response is... I haven't seen any "F3" numbers. A lot of posts hint at, or explicitly say, "you need a sub". I'd really rather not have a sub. I'd also rather not EQ, as I send "bit perfect" CD audio data out to a DAC, and then to an amp. I don't need crazy bass, but I'd like to have usable bass at least down to 50Hz.

Amp will be a HiFiMeDiy T2 (TK2050, 50W at 8Ohms, 100W at 4Ohms). I listen to all kinds of music, dominated mostly by rock and metal, but with healthy amounts of blues, classical and trance.

Thanks!
Matt
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Old 15th August 2012, 10:30 PM   #2
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All the designs mentioned are mine.

milliSize me..., fonken-style box nomenclature... what is with those names?, miniOnken/Fonken gallery pictures only

Unless you have a lot of room gain, or a VERY inefficient speakerm or use EQ (on a sealed box), you are going to be challenged to get that bass out of a real small box (you dimensions max out at ~7.5 litre, the millSize boxes are 4.7 litre). Note that F3 has been shown to be pretty much meaningless in terms of what you here, F6 or F10 are mire meaningful.

dave
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Old 15th August 2012, 11:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
All the designs mentioned are mine.
I gathered that in my research... Almost posted this in the dedicated planet10 forum, but I thought I'd keep it more general.

So many models, and variations. Would you be willing to offer a couple suggestions as to what you think would be most appropriate for me? I wish there was like a table of everything, so it would be easy to help drill down to a few that would be most appropriate for a particular application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Unless you have a lot of room gain, or a VERY inefficient speakerm or use EQ (on a sealed box), you are going to be challenged to get that bass out of a real small box (you dimensions max out at ~7.5 litre, the millSize boxes are 4.7 litre).
That's what I've gathered. Does that apply more to FR speakers than e.g. two-way speakers? At least in the commercial world, I've seen quite small (multi way) speakers that advertise low bass. But from what I've read here (at least in the FR sub-forum ), the theory is that multi-way speakers are sub-optimal for nearfield listening.

If it's not obvious, I have little experience, and my "knowledge" comes from lurking on forums.

FWIW, I did dabble with FR speakers a long time ago. But that was a mostly different application, with different goals. And (as always?) if I knew then what I know now, I probably wouldn't even have attempted that build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Note that F3 has been shown to be pretty much meaningless in terms of what you here, F6 or F10 are mire meaningful.
Why is that? I mentioned F3 only because it's what everyone else mentions, particularly in the commercial arena.

Thanks again,
Matt
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Old 16th August 2012, 01:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_garman View Post
So many models, and variations. Would you be willing to offer a couple suggestions as to what you think would be most appropriate for me? I wish there was like a table of everything, so it would be easy to help drill down to a few that would be most appropriate for a particular application.
We'll need a bit more info to make suggestions i think. Everyone of these is a good speaker. My personal favorite is the new uFonkenSET, Here is a pic of my personal set:

Given the size you can live with, and your wish for bass, it may be time for me to finally get around to the dmMar-Kel70 (~7 litre EL70 box -- could be in the mold of the millis or a full-on miniOnken with side vents & big champhers (better but a more challenging build). Of the milliSize, EL70 produces the lowest bass (and is superb bang for the buck). In the milli it sounds great but you get the feeling that the cabinet size is holding it back (it is).

Quote:
Does that apply more to FR speakers than e.g. two-way speakers?
It applies to all speakers, but given a FRs need to produce some top end, it is harder for it to do, so there are fewer examples.

Quote:
At least in the commercial world, I've seen quite small (multi way) speakers that advertise low bass.
And they will be quite inefficient.

Quote:
the theory is that multi-way speakers are sub-optimal for nearfield listening.
Unless a co-ax you can't get far enuff for the 2 disparate sources to integrate

If it's not obvious, I have little experience, and my "knowledge" comes from lurking on forums.

Quote:
Why is that? I mentioned F3 only because it's what everyone else mentions, particularly in the commercial arena.
F3 is brought over from the filter theory used to model LF in boxes. Studies (Toole et al) show that there is no correlation with hoe low the box is perceived to go. F6 or F10 are much more indicative.

dave
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Old 16th August 2012, 03:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
We'll need a bit more info to make suggestions i think. Everyone of these is a good speaker. My personal favorite is the new uFonkenSET, Here is a pic of my personal set:
What kind of info do you need?

Also, I didn't see any picture...

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
And they will be quite inefficient.
Other than power requirements, is there any downside to inefficient speakers? Seems like nearfield+high power requirements kind of balance each other out.
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Old 16th August 2012, 03:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_garman View Post
What kind of info do you need?
How loud? & what kind of music? Near field use plays to FRs strengths and minimizes their downsides.

Quote:
Also, I didn't see any picture...
Oops.

Click the image to open in full size.

Note that these only (just barely) do 80 Hz.

Quote:
Other than power requirements, is there any downside to inefficient speakers? Seems like nearfield+high power requirements kind of balance each other out.
They do. Power requirements are the primary downside. And you have lots.

dave
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Old 17th August 2012, 02:14 PM   #7
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A manufacturers needs to make a 3 or 4" super bass awesome full ranger that's only 75db/watt. Give up the efficiency for bass in the near field. Not sure that is even possible, but I'd be interested in it.

To the OP, I think you'll find any of the mark audio designs of Planet10s to have adequate bass in the near field. Don't forget that you get desktop support for the woofer just like you would get floor support in a 3-way in the far field. I've heard a lot of his designs and they make bass.
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