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-   -   Efficient, Inexpensive, Compact ... (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/217987-efficient-inexpensive-compact.html)

dsavitsk 15th August 2012 08:51 PM

Efficient, Inexpensive, Compact ...
 
I am looking to build an efficient and fairly inexpensive speaker for use in a largish workshop. Due to the location, sound quality is not the highest priority, and a 80-15K or so frequency response should be more than plenty. Additionally, the smaller it can be, the better. Single driver is ideal due to the lack of complexity, but it is not necessarily essential. Anyone have any suggestions on where to start?

planet10 15th August 2012 09:05 PM

Hoffman's Iron Law.

To get small you give up efficiency. FE103, FF105, FF125. 5-10 litre 89ish dB/1w. If compact is bigger than that about 3 dB more in the FF165. And the FF225 can be fitted into ~15 litre. Price does go up with size.

dave

chris661 15th August 2012 09:32 PM

The "largish workshop" bit worries me when it comes to small FR drivers.

How loud will this need to play?

sreten 15th August 2012 09:56 PM

Hi,

The room modes of a big room indicate you should go for sealed
or very low tuned vented for the best effect at moderate levels.

Why small in a big room ? Will work but not at high efficiency.

Small in big rooms sounds pathetic, big rooms need driving.

rgds, sreten.

fakeout 15th August 2012 10:18 PM

Large workshop? Would it help to use PA drivers? I know Visaton makes some. I'm too lazy right now to look up the model numbers.

dsavitsk 15th August 2012 10:40 PM

There are actually several rooms -- the small FR might work in some of the smaller ones (30'x50' or so), but PA drivers is probably the right answer for the large room (200'x150').

Small means not 6 feet tall. But, bigger than bookshelf is fine -- say 500L for the big ones. I guess I didn't define terms well -- I am looking for PA type speakers that are not too expensive, and being able to do without crossovers seemed like a good idea, though I am not sure it is really that important.

And, I'd like to power these with a reasonably small amp (gainclone for instance) so by efficient, I mean I don't want to use 500W amps.

-d

Lunchietey 15th August 2012 10:56 PM

The only way to effectively cover a 200' by 150' 'room' with pa is with 100v line amps. You will find you will need huge spl from single speakers to cover that area with any meaningful volume. If you only need 80-15k response, this is exactly what you need. You also dont mention what this 'room' is like? Is it a big shed/factory? Noise level etc?

I'd go with a long line of 8" dual cone 100v pa speakers with transformers scattered around the building as required. You will also lose a lot of power over these distances with anything running at 4-8 ohm over 200' without using super thick speake cable $$$$$$

i think you need to re-evaluate your idea. 200' x 150' is not a 'room' you can cover with 'hifi' especially with ambient noise level without lots of speakers and lots of power.:usd::usd:

Lunchietey 15th August 2012 11:01 PM

Oh and probably another option in a room that size is a central cluster of line arrays, probably 4-6 speakers arranged in a circle. probably get away with 8 x 4" full range drivers in a line in each cab and possibly a tweeter in each but probably doubtful high frequencies will get very far in a factory environment over 100' distance. maybe using a bullet HF in each line may work.

Wire up each cab so imedance is high, and parralell them to each other(just in mono, stereo is pointless in this application. The central cluster will spread sound evenly and contorl reverberation. This same location is used in applications such as basketball courts etc.

dsavitsk 16th August 2012 05:03 AM

I think a central cluster is a good idea for the large room. We are planning to use a computer (Raspberry Pi) + amp connected to each speaker running XBMC or SqueezeSlave or something like it. This allows us a distributed system playing the same thing in all rooms, or multiple different things in different rooms. So, hopefully no large speaker wire runs, or 100V line amps.

Anyhow, any more specific driver suggestions for a group of line arrays hanging in the center of the room? An array of car audio speakers? Or a bunch of Markaudio CHBW-70? Something else?

18Hurts 16th August 2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavitsk (Post 3128179)
I think a central cluster is a good idea for the large room. We are planning to use a computer (Raspberry Pi) + amp connected to each speaker running XBMC or SqueezeSlave or something like it. This allows us a distributed system playing the same thing in all rooms, or multiple different things in different rooms. So, hopefully no large speaker wire runs, or 100V line amps.

Anyhow, any more specific driver suggestions for a group of line arrays hanging in the center of the room? An array of car audio speakers? Or a bunch of Markaudio CHBW-70? Something else?

For a line array, using at least 16 of the Vifa 3.5 inch full ranges seem to work the best with EQ. A pair of speakers using 16 each will run you about $350 so not exactly cheap...

Vifa TC9FD-18-08 3-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 264-1062

I built a pair of 3 way line arrays and learned "TV speakers" make the best midranges due to their rising response with frequency. That rising response will be countered by the falling response with frequency due to the destructive interaction inherent in line arrays. If you are weird enough to go with line arrays, be aware that the line should be at least 70% of the floor to ceiling height. My 1.8 meter arrays work great with normal 2.4 meter room ceilings but the bass starts to fade with 3 meter or 4.5 meter roof heights.

Another option is to use the Eminence Beta12LTA PA speaker and do the phase plug mod in a sealed 56 liter box. That will give you around 65 to 8.5KHz flat so a simple single capacitor and the Econowave Selenium compression tweeter with a resistor to adjust it's output to give you great sound on the top octave. The Beta12 hits 97 dB at one watt so has the punch for a work shop.


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