That sounds like a plan to me too, I drive my Vulcans with AN Conquest monoblocks and was now thinking a pair of subs driven by plate amps, Morel drivers don't seem to elicit praise, how about Peerless? Also a tip for a crossover would be of value. I've currently got my rather modest sub crossing over at 120hz and the driver/amp combination is doing well relieved of the LF demands.
Good ideas, Chris, and thanks for the link to a veritable library of information!
I guess if I'm going to try and enhance the Saburos, I ought to pic a design that goes really low, and one that has a cross over frequency that isn't too high, but aside from your concern about XO above 100Hz -- to avoid being able to locate it by sound alone -- are there any guide lines for a speaker like the Saburo? I was looking for the frequency response graph today, but the speaker's been updated, given another name, and there doesn't seem to be a freq. response curve for it . . .
@ Dave, Peerless was a driver brand mentioned by my pal. That's two positive reports now. Maybe I should go with that. They're not cheap, but this is n't project to be too cheap about anyway, since I'll have to buy everything anyway. No scrap wood laying around to do this super economically, so I may as well get good drivers from the outset.
I guess if I'm going to try and enhance the Saburos, I ought to pic a design that goes really low, and one that has a cross over frequency that isn't too high, but aside from your concern about XO above 100Hz -- to avoid being able to locate it by sound alone -- are there any guide lines for a speaker like the Saburo? I was looking for the frequency response graph today, but the speaker's been updated, given another name, and there doesn't seem to be a freq. response curve for it . . .
@ Dave, Peerless was a driver brand mentioned by my pal. That's two positive reports now. Maybe I should go with that. They're not cheap, but this is n't project to be too cheap about anyway, since I'll have to buy everything anyway. No scrap wood laying around to do this super economically, so I may as well get good drivers from the outset.
I've seen impedance curves that suggest the cone is loaded to ~50Hz.
In room, the f3 could be 40Hz, depending on room position etc.
There's no definite rule for choosing a crossover point, though - you might find there's phasing issues between the FR speakers and subs at 100Hz, and decide to move the crossover lower.
Without actually coming to listen, I can't tell you.
To make the experimentation easier, buy one of these. I've lived with mine for a while, and think its brilliant.
If you want really precise setting of crossovers, you'll need an AC voltmeter of some kind.
Peerless drivers are expensive to get over here, but their reputation is good. The SLS range might be worth a look as its has drivers a fraction of the price of the XXLS range.
Europe Audio • Our brands • Peerless
Chris
You might not necessarily need 2 crossovers - as in "stereo" subs - if I'm on the same track as Scott, the LP could be low enough that mixed mono would work fine, and if you'd like to HP the Sabs, that could be achieved with a simple passive HP at the amp driving them.
Multiple subs in this case most likely refers to the flexibility of placement to reduce room nodes and provide more even distribution of the longer wavelengths.
I'm with Chris here. Mono, simple PLLXO for the top (keep the signal to the FRs as pure as possible -- it is far to likely for something like the Beringher (typically as cheap as possible) to substract way more than it adds), and something steeper and active on the bottom.
email me, i have something here that may suit you perfectly for the 2nd half (the 1st half is dead easy).
dave
email me, i have something here that may suit you perfectly for the 2nd half (the 1st half is dead easy).
dave
The Behringer crossover will go down to 44Hz in stereo mode. Methinks that's low enough.
Some good reading on PLLXOs here..
TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
Some good reading on PLLXOs here..
TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
re the Behringer - while its versatility if an outboard unit is required is undeniable, I think Dave was referring to the unit's questionable sonics - having heard both a Gary Pimm tweaked to the max unit, and one that was bone stock, I can certainly understand his point
Ah, no.
There was concern that two crossovers may be required to get the low crossover frequencies required for the subwoofers - this isn't so.
I've found the sound from my Behringer to be decent enough, but I haven't had chance to compare it to much else. Perhaps I'll try tweaking it in time - I'd be interested in a link to the tweaked version if you have it to hand.
OK, my misread of your point
Gary Pimm - to paraphrase a member referencing a well known DIY speaker guru (Zaph) "this guy knows his onions"
http://www.pimmlabs.com/web/behringer.htm
I heard this highly modified Behringer as part of Gary's 3-way system (along with his own amps) a few years back
does the term "gobsmacked" ring a bell?
By comparison, I found a dead stock unit rather like the proverbial thick fuzzy curtain - I guess fine enough if you can compensate or acclimate for it, but the depth and ambience of soundstage once that curtain is opened is not subtle
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I found that, to quote, "only something a microphone could live with".
At some point i need to rip all the analog out and replace with transformers.
dave
I think that for many folks the huge appeal of the Behringer is the combination of its versatility for experimenting / "breadboarding" and saving numerous XO configurations, a and relatively low cost - no doubt there are few "solutions" one might discover with it that couldn't be replicated with other methods.
You guys seem to have switched products in your Behringer comments.
Chris661 linked to the 2310 crossover, but Dave and Chrisb's comments are relative/specific to the DCX2496. Significantly different products doing different things.
While I have heard much complaint over the sound of the DX2496, I have heard little comment of any kind about the 2310/3400 crossovers.
So, do these get (unfairly) painted with the Behringer badge of shame or do they earn it by doing more harm than good? Haven't heard them myself. Certainly seem to be an option.
Chris661 linked to the 2310 crossover, but Dave and Chrisb's comments are relative/specific to the DCX2496. Significantly different products doing different things.
While I have heard much complaint over the sound of the DX2496, I have heard little comment of any kind about the 2310/3400 crossovers.
So, do these get (unfairly) painted with the Behringer badge of shame or do they earn it by doing more harm than good? Haven't heard them myself. Certainly seem to be an option.
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