Gentlemen, Is this a silly question?
I'm toying with the idea of building a small set of speakers (kitchen use)
Likely powered by a diyTa2o20 Chip amp. .. lo.ish power, decent sound but not excellent, unless delusional.
I was hoping for an inexpensive (affordable) full range driver 4" to 6" ?? in a small tl ? box IF that even makes sense.
Only guessing .. that's why I'm asking here, where knowledge and experiences abound
I do have Tannoys in Horn enclosures using hybrid amplification... in their own room.
So I know what "good' is.. But I'm after 'pretty good'
for a v few $$.. Is this Possible?? And if so.. what drivers and where from?
Thank you.
I'm toying with the idea of building a small set of speakers (kitchen use)
Likely powered by a diyTa2o20 Chip amp. .. lo.ish power, decent sound but not excellent, unless delusional.
I was hoping for an inexpensive (affordable) full range driver 4" to 6" ?? in a small tl ? box IF that even makes sense.
Only guessing .. that's why I'm asking here, where knowledge and experiences abound
I do have Tannoys in Horn enclosures using hybrid amplification... in their own room.
So I know what "good' is.. But I'm after 'pretty good'
for a v few $$.. Is this Possible?? And if so.. what drivers and where from?Thank you.
A pair of Fostex fe103en 4" drivers in the recommended bass reflex box would work very well. If you extend the ports to 100 mm,tuning will be lowered to 80 hz.
Madisound Speaker Store
Madisound Speaker Store
Vifa TC9FD-18-08 3-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 264-1062
These will get down to 80 cycles in a small TL.
These will get down to 80 cycles in a small TL.
How cheap is cheap?
Small TL is usually an oxymoron. How much room do you have?
Madiosund has the CHP70.2 (in tan) on for a real budget price. They will fit in 4.5-9 litre.
CHR70 has the advantage of a less permeable metal cone (if you are worried about smoke/grease/splashes getting on them)
My personal choice would be a set of uFonkenWK.
dave
Small TL is usually an oxymoron. How much room do you have?
Madiosund has the CHP70.2 (in tan) on for a real budget price. They will fit in 4.5-9 litre.
CHR70 has the advantage of a less permeable metal cone (if you are worried about smoke/grease/splashes getting on them)
My personal choice would be a set of uFonkenWK.
dave
Oh yeah, good call. I didn't think of that.
Here's a poly.
Tang Band W5-1611SAF 5" Full Range Speaker 264-918
I saw the word cheap so that's what I gave ya at first, but it is a paper cone. Might get a little soggy
Here's a poly.
Tang Band W5-1611SAF 5" Full Range Speaker 264-918
I saw the word cheap so that's what I gave ya at first, but it is a paper cone. Might get a little soggy
The Planet 10 box specifically for the paper cone CHP70.2 is
here:
Frugal-phile | Box Library / Mark Audio
This would seem to suit a small build for a counter top/kitchen.
I may do it myself since I recently took advantage of the sale price on this at Madisound. Right now my MA is installed in a found object from a previous build and continues to be gently (as Mark suggests) broken in.
Ok, give me a brief rundown.
The last TL I built was 8 years ago.
I thought I investigated them thoroughly, but maybe not.
I won't argue, I promise
12 years ago proper models of TLs were contemperaneously & independently derived by George Augspurger & Martin King. These models showed a lot more design options & range for TLs, much greater accuracy of pre-build simulation and showed up how poor classic TL design is (likely what you did).
These models have completely changed the way TLs are designed and has opened up a much larger design space, and increased the performance of TLs of all sorts.
The Martin King model and accompanying software have been continuously been improved & upgraded, leaving Augspurger's 1-off paper as a reference for his work.
dave
Ok, give me a brief rundown.
The last TL I built was 8 years ago.
I thought I investigated them thoroughly, but maybe not.
I won't argue, I promise
Dave's beat me to it, but:
Martin King's site is the place to start: Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
I suggest also reading Augspurger's AES paper (note: the tables appear to have printing errors; the SB / AudioXpress articles that were derived from this are probably better but you'll have to buy the back-issues): http://documents.jordan-usa.com/Famous-Articles/Augspurger-Loudspeakers-on-Damped-Pipes.pdf
Few general points FWIW:
-The CSA of the line has no relationship to the Sd of the driver.
-A TL in some respects is little different to any other vented box alignment in that Q & Vas dominate; if you want LF gain, it needs to have sufficient Vb (or Vp in this case) for a given tuning
-The SoS is not dramatically slowed by fibrous damping material. It does slow, but nothing like as much as postulated by Bradbury et al back in the 1970s
-Line tuning, end correction aside, is a function of length & taper, not just length. An expanding pipe (horn) will be significantly longer for a given Fp. Conversely, a negative taper pipe is inherently mass loaded, and will be significantly shorter for a given Fp.
Hope some of that is of use.
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Well, I didn't get too deep into martin's worksheets and I didn't use mathcad,
I don't quite remember the ratios I went with but, I think it was 2 SD to 1 SD with an 84" line driver placed 1/3 away from closed end. I lined the walls and stuffed from driver to closed end 1lb sqf with polyfill. Driver fs was 27hz but was extremely low qts. It worked. It was probably luck.
So tell me how vas relates.
here are those bad boys. my room mate called them "ice cream sandwiches"
I don't quite remember the ratios I went with but, I think it was 2 SD to 1 SD with an 84" line driver placed 1/3 away from closed end. I lined the walls and stuffed from driver to closed end 1lb sqf with polyfill. Driver fs was 27hz but was extremely low qts. It worked. It was probably luck.
So tell me how vas relates.
here are those bad boys. my room mate called them "ice cream sandwiches"
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two questions I think not yet answered by the OP:
how small is "smallish" enclosure
what would be considered an "affordable" price range for the drivers?
I would almost opine that worries about cooking splashes / splatters etc are overblown, but then I've been in the Dlugos kitchen at both regular meals, and events when multiple cooks are engaged ........so, maybe not
how small is "smallish" enclosure
what would be considered an "affordable" price range for the drivers?
I would almost opine that worries about cooking splashes / splatters etc are overblown, but then I've been in the Dlugos kitchen at both regular meals, and events when multiple cooks are engaged ........so, maybe not
I built the Slim Classic GR on frugal-phile.com with a Mark Audio CHP-70.2 http://www.frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/CGR-dKal-El703-300611.pdf. EXCELLENT speaker!!! You can't touch anything like it for the price.
Mike
In the case of classic design, i have concluded that the idea of stuffing slowing SoS was really an incorrect conclusion from the effects caused by the typical taper put on many classic designs.
dave
Wow! Thank You! ..All.. gentlemen An unexpected response.
Frankly though It may take me a few hours(?) to sort through all the suggestions.
How cheap is a good question.. best answered immediately.
Free is the holy Grail
$50 for the driver pair is IMO cheap, do able?
However $100 is perhaps the more realistic threshold.
How much room do I have? Whatever I need although as we all know. there is always the 'spouse' problem. My GRF Horns take up a LOT of room. I will face serious issues if I attempt something larger than SWMBO approves of in.. her.. area of our home.
Realistically? table or desk or counter top..no floor standers and clearly hideous ' speaker stands' are a definite No!
But no need for computer or Ipod size efforts either.
Embarassingly I don't know.. what size exactly.
But as in Monty Python's Holy Grail a 'just right' size will do nicely
Frankly though It may take me a few hours(?) to sort through all the suggestions.
How cheap is a good question.. best answered immediately.
Free is the holy Grail
$50 for the driver pair is IMO cheap, do able?
However $100 is perhaps the more realistic threshold.
How much room do I have? Whatever I need
although as we all know. there is always the 'spouse' problem. My GRF Horns take up a LOT of room. I will face serious issues if I attempt something larger than SWMBO approves of in.. her.. area of our home.Realistically? table or desk or counter top..no floor standers and clearly hideous ' speaker stands' are a definite No!
But no need for computer or Ipod size efforts either.
Embarassingly I don't know.. what size exactly.
But as in Monty Python's Holy Grail a 'just right' size will do nicely
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