Full Range and Program Content

[autox]

Hi,

I'm new to diy audio and in my reading have found myself drawn to full range speakers in transmission line cabinets, but I've picked up a few hints (Bob Brines home page) that they may not be well suited to what I listen to: electronic/club DJs, pop/rock, jazz/blues - the club music being the concern.

Will a sub-woofer address any shortcoming FR/TL may otherwise demonstrate w/ electronic content? (Is crossing at 40Hz to ensure the sub gets zero content above 80Hz (psycho-location threshhold) crazy?)

My listening room is 11'x12' w/ a 9.5' ceiling. The clap test for room response has a bit of a ring to it, but I'm open to some acoustic treatment. My source will be my PC w/ deq/dxo either in software or hardware, I've got my eye on an AudioSector gain clone, and may add a tube buffer for flavor.


Advice and useful links appreciated.

Thanks,
-Rene

[Cal Weldon]

Hi Rene,

Yes, I would add a woofer to the mix and a high pass filter to the FR to protect it from low frequencies.

[FullRangeMan]

With this kind of repetitive music a RF driver will had a short life, you need a pro fullrange+Tweeter with a crossover.

Other option is a 15inches woofer and a FR, as the well know Alpha15A+Visaton B200 or other 8inches FR.

A FR is not suited to bass under 100Hz, the Alpha15A above is cut at 270 - 300Hz and pass to the B200.
Regards

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by autox

Hi,

I'm new to diy audio and in my reading have found myself drawn to full range speakers in transmission line cabinets, but I've picked up a few hints (Bob Brines home page) that they may not be well suited to what I listen to: electronic/club DJs, pop/rock, jazz/blues - the club music being the concern.

Will a sub-woofer address any shortcoming FR/TL may otherwise demonstrate w/ electronic content? (Is crossing at 40Hz to ensure the sub gets zero content above 80Hz (psycho-location threshhold) crazy?)

My listening room is 11'x12' w/ a 9.5' ceiling. The clap test for room response has a bit of a ring to it, but I'm open to some acoustic treatment. My source will be my PC w/ deq/dxo either in software or hardware, I've got my eye on an AudioSector gain clone, and may add a tube buffer for flavor.


Advice and useful links appreciated.

Thanks,
-Rene

- +2 to Cal's confirmation above - most of us "full-rangers" have dabbled with that approach, the key to our justification being that the XOs are low enough ( under 120Hz or so) that most of the lower midrange / upper mid-bass is still being handled by the wide-band driver;
-the AudioSector is a wonderful sounding piece;
- depending on your source and even more so the driver you decide on for the wide-band part of the system, you might not need any additional "flavoring" - to be completely honest, the only tube buffer "enhancer" I've heard so far was not much more than a distortion injection device - warm and fuzzy to be sure, but not clean or real - I'd far rather invest the extra in the real front end source / higher sampling rate player software or active line stage if deemed necessary to your application
- the room is small enough that a well matched system with a single 4-5" full range driver per side should be quite adequate if Hi-Passed and supported by actively powered woofers (which might well be less than 15")

Of course when you ask for advice on a forum such as this, don't be surprised if you get more opinions and recommendations than consensus - we all have our own biases, and current favorites. That said, I think any list of candidates for such an application should include the Alpair 7.3 and 10.2, and Fostex FF125 for the widebanders.

[chris661]

Originally Posted by autox

Hi,

I'm new to diy audio and in my reading have found myself drawn to full range speakers in transmission line cabinets, but I've picked up a few hints (Bob Brines home page) that they may not be well suited to what I listen to: electronic/club DJs, pop/rock, jazz/blues - the club music being the concern.

Will a sub-woofer address any shortcoming FR/TL may otherwise demonstrate w/ electronic content? (Is crossing at 40Hz to ensure the sub gets zero content above 80Hz (psycho-location threshhold) crazy?)

My listening room is 11'x12' w/ a 9.5' ceiling. The clap test for room response has a bit of a ring to it, but I'm open to some acoustic treatment. My source will be my PC w/ deq/dxo either in software or hardware, I've got my eye on an AudioSector gain clone, and may add a tube buffer for flavor.


Advice and useful links appreciated.

Thanks,
-Rene

Hi,

Crossing the sub at 40Hz is a bad idea: a FR driver won't go low enough to match up to it.

IMHO, to get the best out of a FR driver, asking even 80Hz (to meet a sub) is too low for decent dynamics.

Here's what I did:
Fostex and Tang Band

The concept is simple enough: using stereo woofers, you can cross over higher (I'm at 500Hz, which means baffle step compensation is usefully built in to the crossover) to give the FR driver a much easier time. The higher you take the crossover, the louder it'll go, but you've then got more problems getting the crossover exactly right so you can't hear it: the closer you get to the 1-5kHz range, the more difficult it gets - our ears are very sensitive to anomalies in that region. Lower down, its more difficult to detect: there's more margin for error.

HTH

Chris

[zman01]

Rene,

Already a wealth of good advice from the folks.

I have the ferrite version of the Tang Band sub drivers that Chris661 has. Along with a MA Alp 7.3 it worked like a charm in a bi-amped config.

The Alpair 7.3 does a very good job in resolving detail, ambience, etc in electronica - along with great midrange, the top is very clear and extened.

The subs were in simple 11"x11" ported cubes. The XO was set at 110 Hz using Foobar. I had 2 amps - Hypex UcD for the Alpair 7.3 and a Tripath amp for the TB subs. Alpair 7.3 with subwoofers did better than Alpir 12 with subwoofers - the air and detail of the Alp 7.3 in the P10 Mar-Ken 7.3 design was superior, integration with the 6.5 inch sub drivers was tighter. My room was ~250 sq with similar ceiling height. Didn't feel the need for more bass.

A word on the amplification - the sub drivers will need watts to shine. First we fed it a 50 watt/channel Tripath - not good. Then we tried the 90 watt/channel at 4 ohms HifimeDIY T4 amp - the subs came alive. We used 2 subs - so bass localization was not an issue.

We tried out stuff like Anjunadeep, Paul Oakenfold, John Digweed, BT - sounded real good to us.

[Melon Head]

Either try an Audio Nirvana Super 15, or possibly a nice 12" or 15" Coaxial from Radion, Beyma, PAudio etc or EVen AUdio Nirvana

[Melon Head]

If the music you like is similar to Jamiroquai: Travelling Without Moving. Then the Audio Nirvana 15 easily deals with that sought of music

[zman01]

Melon Head,

OPs room is 11" x 12" - might be tricky to place 2 x15" there... how far from back and wall have you placed your OBs?

[Melon Head]

My speakers sit anywhere between 40cm and 70cm from the back wall. My house is open plan, not sure what they might do in a room of that size, it could cause things to shake and vibrate I suppose