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Old 24th August 2012, 08:24 PM   #891
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
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tsiros enjoy it, revel in the music your systems unfolds before you, soar to the heights and depths, cry tears of ernest art, and jump with boogie joy, then sometime, maybe a week, a year, ten years, you might decide, hey if i just make this little adjustment, or change this or that, perhaps it will be just a bit more real and revealing, ok then do it, try it, but never forget its really about your experience with the music, you made a great start, when time and money allow then no doubt you'll be curious to try more, and why not, if we are not doing this because it brings joy to our soul then really why bother at all
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Old 24th August 2012, 08:30 PM   #892
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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thanks, octavia, but the initial idea was that in a system, speakers that can take advantage of the earlier links in the chain (power amp, preamp, source) tend to cost more than them together.

Is it not so?
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Old 24th August 2012, 08:41 PM   #893
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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Of course not. This is a learning experience. Let me to esplain....

All of us start out loving LOUD. Then we notice thrillingly loud and deep bass. We do notice that maybe the mids and highs are kind of harsh.. but oh my goodness THAT BASS...

Then, through one experience or another, we become dissatisfied with that harshness and, find solutions, and, try many of them. Somewhere, in all of that, we notice that some of the solutions hint at a very much more detailed representation of actual music being played by humans and we are struck by how we respond to that, having thought all along we were responding fully... and so, off we go, looking for that quite elusive character, one that almost puts us to sleep when we hear it and occasionally moves us to tears of joy. and we think, this is IT..... but, of course it is still just our own opinion and certainly among everyone else on a forum like this, or any other where personal growth is occurring, no one is going to agree with you. Do not take it personally. They are just on their own journeys. Be thankful that there is a place where 160,000 actively intelligent investigators are sharing, as well as humans are able. Don't take their comments seriously, unless it is strictly technical and even then know that there are hundreds of other ways, supported by knowledgeable people, to choose from.

You have done well, you have at least begun! The odds were very much against you, you know, 7 billion to 160K are not very good odds...

Bud
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Last edited by BudP; 24th August 2012 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 24th August 2012, 08:46 PM   #894
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
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Hmm well not really an iron clad rule about cost of source and amp components versus speakers. What is true is that extraneous speaker resonances can obscure the fine details of the signals they receive. But there are plenty of costly speakers that suffer from this problem as well as some fairly low cost ways of eliminating them. How many hear remember the Microscan Resonance absorption devices of a decade ago? And that acoustic blok paint Bud mentioned worked wonders on subwoofer that was giving me fits. Anyway the diy path is certainly the path of more bang for the buck!
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Old 24th August 2012, 08:53 PM   #895
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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The general populace tends to be mesmerized by OMG HUGE BASS WUB WUB YEAH but i don't want it to be more pronounced. It should be there and sound clear. Much like all the spectrum.

I disagree about the notion of subjectivity in music reproduction: frequency response, transient response and distortion are not subjective matters and if they are OK, the system will sound OK. I can not accept - as a physicist and musician - that a system can sound OK but measure poorly.

Anyway, you're saying that for a source that costs X and an amp that costs Y, the speakers that can complete the system will (probably) cost less than Y or X? more than Y or X? less than X+Y? Because i can't think of how a $100 speaker can complete an amplifier that costs $100 (and there are $100 amps that are superb). Or even a $200 speaker.
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Old 24th August 2012, 09:09 PM   #896
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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Speakers make the biggest difference. You will not be able to hear the "better amps and sources" through less good speakers. Speakers should set the upper limit of the system's capability.

You should read Toole. Flatness and smoothness of on-axis response does indeed correspond with listener preference.
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Old 24th August 2012, 09:51 PM   #897
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The thing that has been most eye opening in my experience is system synnergy. I have 3 amps to choose from, two dacs, three preamps, and two speakers. They all sound different and unique and do not necessarily mix. Without building thousands of amps, i have no wsy of knowing anything but generakizations,but these generalizations can be a guide. I also tend to follow certain peoplewho seem to likesimilar things as i and learn from theircombined experience. I am sure BudP has a system that would be unsettling to my audio world. At some point,it is just different, not better.
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Old 24th August 2012, 10:01 PM   #898
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I have built a lot of stuff Tsiros and I can say you have done really well. The only thing to keep in the back of your mind is that there are a lot of people here and many of them are chasing quite different things. So don't be too concerned about other peoples opinions because what is audio bliss to them might be hell for you and vice versa. The destination is more enjoyable music, and having fun along the way.
Soon you will be designing your own stuff if you continue with this hobby.
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Old 24th August 2012, 10:02 PM   #899
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melon Head View Post
I have built a lot of stuff Tsiros and I can say you have done really well. The only thing to keep in the back of your mind is that there are a lot of people here and many of them are chasing quite different things. So don't be too concerned about other peoples opinions because what is audio bliss to them might be hell for you and vice versa. The destination is more enjoyable music, and having fun along the way.
Soon you will be designing your own stuff if you continue with this hobby.
Well said!
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Old 24th August 2012, 11:09 PM   #900
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yup, your ears, your preferences, your values, your happiness !!!!!!!!!!!

Some are sensitive to phase, others want full 20-20 bandwidth, some want awesome sound at 75db, others demand 110+ db peak at listening position.

And worse yet, budp is right. What was once great, you may have now evolved past it and want something different.
It's sad when you revisit on old project and it now sounds like junk to you, especially after giving it high praise originally........

Norman

Last edited by norman bates; 24th August 2012 at 11:12 PM.
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