Alpair 10's for mid/highs only? - Page 2

planet10 · 16th June 2012, 10:41 PM

I did the calc in another thread, A10.2 sealed will meet up with a woofer 80-100 Hz.

dave

Jdot · 17th June 2012, 03:23 AM

Thanks for the usual high quality replies.

To elaborate a little, yes I'm looking at two stereo active subs 10/12 inch. I'll build those plate amps into them. I havent even started to research whats best here all I know is I'd like items to be vibrating off the mantle piece.

Why? Dunno. I usually just listen at normal levels but it's kinda like why does a rich bloke buy a Ferrari then drive round the city all day in 60 km zones...

So pretty much the full range drivers just need to play from the subs up and keep up with the volume levels when cranked. I dont want to compromise quality however, so if the 7.3's are better in that area than the 10.2's, then they'll be the pick. I just thought it would be nice to give the big ones a go seeing as I already have a pair of 7.3's in the frugal horns.

Is the miniDSP a good product to be doing all this crossing over with?

sayrum · 17th June 2012, 07:31 AM

we have a saying here in german diy-circles: membran (cone surface) area cannot be replaced with anything but more surface area.

-> my vote goes to the alpair10.2!
afaiu the beaming might/will be more with the 10.2

Jdot · 17th June 2012, 08:59 AM

Kind of like that old saying "you cant replace cubic inches" when it comes to engines.

(I believe I'm paraphrasing but the saying went something along those lines....)

Rullknufs · 17th June 2012, 09:14 AM

"There's no replacement for displacement" I've heard...

chris661 · 17th June 2012, 10:28 AM

All true when it comes to reproducing lots of LF.

To the OP, will you be able to mount the subwoofer near to the FR driver?
If so, it'd be worth considering the response of the drivers up to ~500Hz: FR drivers will go much much louder when the crossover is higher than it would be for a conventional subwoofer.

jimbro · 17th June 2012, 12:49 PM

How would you go about designing a tapered TL for a mid/high fast driver? Do you choose the xover point and tune it to that?

18Hurts · 17th June 2012, 12:53 PM

I get 110dB at one meter from the spec sheets on the 12P

92dB plus +18dB/W (60 watts) is 110dB each at one meter so I'd consider that
quite loud. Generally speaking, when someone mentions subwoofers and loud together, I lean towards 110dB minimum for what "loud" means.

110dB = loud
115dB = THX loud
120dB = Rock concert loud
130dB (bass under 40Hz) Classical music pipe organ loud

110dB peaks are really easy to hit if you listen to very dynamic classical orchestra music. Throw in traditional subwoofers crossing at 80Hz and that would require an efficient, larger coned full range to meet up correctly. The 12P looks very good in that respect, we shall see when the designs start flowing from the new driver.

planet10 · 17th June 2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbro

How would you go about designing a tapered TL for a mid/high fast driver? Do you choose the xover point and tune it to that?

You are going to stuff it until it is aperiodic so it only needs to be long enuff.

dave

jimbro · 18th June 2012, 12:32 AM

O.K. - what would be the advantage of using a TL as opposed to a stuffed cardboard tube or some such?

16th June 2012, 10:41 PM	#11
planet10 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 5	I did the calc in another thread, A10.2 sealed will meet up with a woofer 80-100 Hz. dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA

17th June 2012, 09:14 AM	#15
Rullknufs diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sweden	"There's no replacement for displacement" I've heard... __________________ My audio and DIY blog: http://phimusic.blogspot.se/

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17th June 2012, 03:23 AM	#12
Jdot diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Melbourne	Thanks for the usual high quality replies. To elaborate a little, yes I'm looking at two stereo active subs 10/12 inch. I'll build those plate amps into them. I havent even started to research whats best here all I know is I'd like items to be vibrating off the mantle piece. Why? Dunno. I usually just listen at normal levels but it's kinda like why does a rich bloke buy a Ferrari then drive round the city all day in 60 km zones... So pretty much the full range drivers just need to play from the subs up and keep up with the volume levels when cranked. I dont want to compromise quality however, so if the 7.3's are better in that area than the 10.2's, then they'll be the pick. I just thought it would be nice to give the big ones a go seeing as I already have a pair of 7.3's in the frugal horns. Is the miniDSP a good product to be doing all this crossing over with?

17th June 2012, 07:31 AM	#13
sayrum diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2011	we have a saying here in german diy-circles: membran (cone surface) area cannot be replaced with anything but more surface area. -> my vote goes to the alpair10.2! afaiu the beaming might/will be more with the 10.2

17th June 2012, 08:59 AM	#14
Jdot diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Melbourne	Kind of like that old saying "you cant replace cubic inches" when it comes to engines. (I believe I'm paraphrasing but the saying went something along those lines....)

17th June 2012, 10:28 AM	#16
chris661 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sheffield Blog Entries: 8	All true when it comes to reproducing lots of LF. To the OP, will you be able to mount the subwoofer near to the FR driver? If so, it'd be worth considering the response of the drivers up to ~500Hz: FR drivers will go much much louder when the crossover is higher than it would be for a conventional subwoofer.

17th June 2012, 12:49 PM	#17
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	How would you go about designing a tapered TL for a mid/high fast driver? Do you choose the xover point and tune it to that?

17th June 2012, 12:53 PM	#18
18Hurts diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010	I get 110dB at one meter from the spec sheets on the 12P 92dB plus +18dB/W (60 watts) is 110dB each at one meter so I'd consider that quite loud. Generally speaking, when someone mentions subwoofers and loud together, I lean towards 110dB minimum for what "loud" means. 110dB = loud 115dB = THX loud 120dB = Rock concert loud 130dB (bass under 40Hz) Classical music pipe organ loud 110dB peaks are really easy to hit if you listen to very dynamic classical orchestra music. Throw in traditional subwoofers crossing at 80Hz and that would require an efficient, larger coned full range to meet up correctly. The 12P looks very good in that respect, we shall see when the designs start flowing from the new driver.

18th June 2012, 12:32 AM	#20
jimbro diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere in Texas	O.K. - what would be the advantage of using a TL as opposed to a stuffed cardboard tube or some such?