Great album but I think the track Stimela with Hugh Masekela has more dynamics and is more interesting to listen toTry playing this song at reference-level and your speakers will most likely be sweating quite a bit
HA!, I heard Hugh live last summer in The Concertgebouw here in Amsterdam. He tore the place down! What a performer!
Just to be clear: A single 8cm driver like the Alpair 7.3 will choke on sustained reference level playback. No argument there. But the question was: Can it handle the short powerful bursts of an orchestra up to 95db? To me it's clear that yes, it can handle that just fine in a FAST setup.
Ah - the Great Gate of Kiev - maybe a pair of servo 15's isn't only just for "Transformers"
I remember reading a quote somewhere (talking about Night on Bald Mountain) that "Mussorgsky invented heavy metal"
who else recalls Disney's Fantasia in Cinemascope & stereo ( was it 3 channel? ) as a kid in the late 50s - talk about foreshadowing of the psychedelic 60s
OK. A7.3 and two RS225-4's it is.
Obviously, one 8" would be enough, but I want two for the transient response. It is my theory that the larger the Sd and therefore smaller excursion, the sharper the leading edge of the sound wave. IMO this is what produces "slam". I cannot understand a 4-6" "subwoofer" with huge Xmax. The leading edge of the sound wave has to be mushy. Again, this based on my experiments with am 18" H-frame. At 100dB and 30Hz, I had to put my finger on the cone to detect come motion.
Bob
Obviously, one 8" would be enough, but I want two for the transient response. It is my theory that the larger the Sd and therefore smaller excursion, the sharper the leading edge of the sound wave. IMO this is what produces "slam". I cannot understand a 4-6" "subwoofer" with huge Xmax. The leading edge of the sound wave has to be mushy. Again, this based on my experiments with am 18" H-frame. At 100dB and 30Hz, I had to put my finger on the cone to detect come motion.
Bob
In my opinion this nails the two drivers. Head to head, I would pick the 10 if having to use a single driver, but with support, the 7.3 is the choice. I have got two 12" peeless coming as well as two CA 22RNX. Eventually they will be employed. IT will be interesting to see the difference in thet 8'' Seas vs the 12" Peerless, as they both have the smae linear excursion. Should give an very specific look into overall driver surface area and how it affects the sound delivered. EVen got measurement equipment now, to make it official
Some of us attended a St. Louis Symphony concert recently. The program included some selections from Dvorak Slavonic Dances, Rhapsody in Blue, a dance suite from Bernstein (Leonard, not Elmer), Ravel's La Valse and some other material. Not only were there very wide dynamics in these performances, but the orchestra played really loud. Not The Who loud, but we were all surprised. And we were sitting a few rows from the top of Powell Hall (best seats for listening). We didn't measure SPLs, but they were well above our ability to talk to each other.
I say this to suggest that very few, if any, speakers (even large mega-bucks multi-driver systems) will actually reproduce the full dynamic range of an orchestra playing full-tilt without the risk of relatively high distortion and / or damage to the driver(s). Even using semi near-field listening (my personal preference) much of the tonal purity, instrumental timbre and fine detail are lost when trying to reproduce large scale orchestral performances with loud dynamic peaks.
Wait a few minutes to reply so that I can put on my bullet-proof armor and get into the bomb shelter.
I say this to suggest that very few, if any, speakers (even large mega-bucks multi-driver systems) will actually reproduce the full dynamic range of an orchestra playing full-tilt without the risk of relatively high distortion and / or damage to the driver(s). Even using semi near-field listening (my personal preference) much of the tonal purity, instrumental timbre and fine detail are lost when trying to reproduce large scale orchestral performances with loud dynamic peaks.
Wait a few minutes to reply so that I can put on my bullet-proof armor and get into the bomb shelter.
From what i understand, horns are the only thing that come come close to reproducing the dynamic range of an orchestra. Moving the amount of air that is need to reproduce just a single tuba is impossible...at least i think i have heard this stated. Could be wrong. I guess it is relative to the volume at which the music is played. I like it loud personally.
I think the JBL Everest D66000 played large orchestras very well... If I get the opportunity I will try some MBL 101 Extremes and Focal Scala Grand Utopia as well.
By the way, played some music today on my EL70eN's. Played way louder than i usually do and heck, they still sounded good. Seems like I've underestimated them. Although, I didn't play any dense music, just "simple" music.
By the way, played some music today on my EL70eN's. Played way louder than i usually do and heck, they still sounded good. Seems like I've underestimated them. Although, I didn't play any dense music, just "simple" music.
you'll need a bigger room first Niklas
hmm, I think I've heard/said that before
Wont play them in my room, I'm not that rich
But Audioconcept in Stockholm has them in their store in a slightly larger room.Well, you might very well have heard that before because as I grow bolder I turn up the volume more and more
for the cost of ownership of some of these silly high end systems (I've seen reports of systems / home rebuilds at well over $.5 Million - IMO that's so far beyond ridiculous that it's almost criminal,
) you could probably see live performances at real concert hall venues around the world for several years, and if your timing is right, catch some other sightseeing as wellI think the CES set-up total system cost was much more than that. With electronics, probably in excess of $800kUS.
My posts are not intended to be critical of efforts to provide musical satisfaction, just to remind that we just won't reproduce a live orchestral performannce in our own homes unless we bring in a live orchestra (and have a REALLY BIG family room or other form of man cave).
My posts are not intended to be critical of efforts to provide musical satisfaction, just to remind that we just won't reproduce a live orchestral performannce in our own homes unless we bring in a live orchestra (and have a REALLY BIG family room or other form of man cave).
If not for the lack of dynamics that you describe, it would be for many other reasons.
Hi Bob,
Appreciate your need to deliver what customers want. Certainly peaks (output) from Alp 7's in the low 90's dB is fine, they'll do that on full-range in an optimised box. I'm just a bit nervous pushing a relatively small cone (Alp 7) constantly hard, although keeping it away from allot of low-end mechanical oscillation it should be fine. I should be done moving homes and offices in the next 2 weeks (hopefully).
I'll try to find time to run some tests and get back to you. Assuming 95dB is needed at what listening distance?
Thanks
Mark.
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Thanks for your interest here. Let's say 95dB at 1m. As was pointed out by others, what we are dealing with is orchestral crescendos. I don't anticipate selling to hard rockers -- that takes a different kind of speaker. I have had complains that my speakers choke on romantic symphonies, which is true. I am looking to make a speaker that does Baroque, jazz, Alison Kraus correctly and still have half a chance of doing Mahler.
Bob
Ok Bob,
I'll try and get on to it by end of next week. Sorry can't be sooner, surrounded by packing boxes full of house-hold and office stuff at this time.
Cheers
Mark.
I do. Partly why I have 10 or so different copies of Night on Bald Mountain and about as many of Pictures.
Rullknuf's comment on "dense" music made me think of Monk. That's the description one of my son's uses for Monk: "his music is dense".
I'll also echo the comments on not being able to reproduce the full orchestra. I have season tickets to the Fort Worth Symphony. Having heard Beethoven's Ninth several times with the full symphony, 130 person choir, and four soloists. Never get those dynamics in the home.
Rullknuf's comment on "dense" music made me think of Monk. That's the description one of my son's uses for Monk: "his music is dense".
I'll also echo the comments on not being able to reproduce the full orchestra. I have season tickets to the Fort Worth Symphony. Having heard Beethoven's Ninth several times with the full symphony, 130 person choir, and four soloists. Never get those dynamics in the home.
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