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Old 21st May 2012, 08:35 AM   #1
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Default Alternate Full range 10" drivers

Hi guys,

I have had a bit of a look around, but have not found anything to replace the current out of stock of the P.Audio HP10W's drivers for the Boominator.

I have found some Autotek M10-4 10" Full Range Car Speaker's that look like the goods (I'm just looking for 10", high sensitivity and wide range) , but not much information on building a back to back speaker cabinet such as the boominator for portability.

I know I'll most likely need a tweeter which is no prob.

Power Handling:
200 Watts RMS
400 Watts Max Power
10" Diameter
1.5" Voice Coil
4 Ohms Impedance
Stamped Steel Basket
Treated Pressed Paper Cone
Cloth W Surround
Polished Aluminum Phase Plug
Poly Cotton Spider
Frequency Response: 100 Hz - 8000 Hz
Top-mount depth: 3-1/3"
Sensitivity: 96.1 dB (1w/1m)
39 oz Magnet
Weight: 7.25 lbs

Autotek M10-4 (M104) Mean Machine 10" Full Range Pro Audio Driver

Anyone know if these would work in the application I am chasing...

that is: the Boominator style box with 4 drivers (2 back to back) in an Ported/MTLT style design, with some Class D either 20+20w ot 100+100w Tripath and some sealed Led acid deep cycle batteries and a solar panel.
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Old 21st May 2012, 02:32 PM   #2
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http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/10AGN.pdf

beyma 10agn
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Old 22nd May 2012, 07:54 AM   #3
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Sweet, I am going to see if I can get them posted to AU, they look like the goods.

10"
hi spl
good range.
Looks like they may go down to about 80hz @ about 90db
not sure what sort of box would suite, but want to do a front/back setup ( 2 drivers for each channel ).
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Old 22nd May 2012, 10:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevodude View Post
Hi guys,

>< snip
The PAudio HP10W's appear to be in stock at cannon sound in Sydney.

P.Audio HP-10W 10 Inch 100 Watt Low Frequency Public Address Systems | Portable PA Systems | DJ Equipment & Lighting

Having said that, they aren't really terribly 'full range'. They go up to 2-3k, as you would expect for a driver of this type. Pretty easy match with a tweeter in a 2way - cannon sound have many cheap tweeters to choose from, including some ripper Seleniums at bargain prices.

Clue me in if I have missed the point.

Regards,
blakkenstein
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Old 22nd May 2012, 01:43 PM   #5
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Sweet, gonna get some of those.

Also any recommendation on a tweeter form cannonsound to go with the boomer?

would I be looking at the Selenium ST300 Ring Radiator Supertweeter $29ea, I would still need 4, 2 per side ?

Saturnus did specify to use a Piezo

What about the Piezo 85 x 85mm 150watt Horn Tweeter (similar to Motorola KSN1005)

Impedance: 4 - 8 ohms
Power: 75W RMS, 150W max.
Frequency response: 2kHz - 20kHz
Sensitivity: 94 dB (2.83V/M)

Good sensitivity and good crossover range with the hp10w?

hp10w (about 90db) 30 - ~4Khz (yes the boom will be configured for about 100hz?)
piezo horn tweeter 2kHz - 20kHz - a capacitor somewhere in there...
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Old 23rd May 2012, 02:57 AM   #6
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For a succinct explanation of how to best use a piezo tweeter, see
Piezo Tweeter Crossovers | J Risch
I have the HP12W's, which are rated about 1dB more sensitive than the HP10W and one piezo tweeter (the very ones sold by cannon sound, in fact) can't quite keep up SPL wise. Two in parallel works fine and they are that cheap that you can use any number of them to get more output if necessary (array them vertically if you have room, of course).

The Seleniums will need a proper crossover to ensure adequate power handling, although they are MUCH more sensitive than the piezos and will need to be padded down a bit. Also beware the ST300 is designed for a 'long throw' application and has quite tightly controlled and narrow dispersion that might be a problem if listening up close.

In passing, the cannon sound piezos (in fact, most of the Chinese sourced cheap piezos) may look like the KSN1005 but they don't measure much like them. Still great value, and effective in many applications but they are not the equal of the genuine article IMHO.

Rgds,
blakkintyre
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Old 26th May 2012, 06:22 AM   #7
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blakkshepeaudio, I ordered 8 x KSN1005 before finsh reading your post :-)

8 x hp10w's sitting in a box waiting to be noisified :-)

I also have 12 Tymphany Peerless BC25SC15-04 's that I could put to good use...

I may end up doing 2 boominators ( I am donig a duplicate for a mte, but it might end up being NOT a duplicate)...

Boominator 1:
4 of the Cannon Horn tweeters for each channel (ie all 8 horn tweeters)

Boominator 2:
4 of the peerless silk dome tweeters for each channel.

I guess I put them together when I get the amps done and see how much I can actually hear as both are within 1db of each other...

Or if it's a stupid idea to mix them together somoehow to get a better SPL and short - long throw noise :-)

Maybe this thread should be renamed, Boomundernator , as in: Aussie down under boominator lol.

On another note, currentl listening to Pink Floyd - The Division Bell with these oldies I picked up last week from the recycle Center :-) Fantastic warm sound!

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by stevodude; 26th May 2012 at 06:38 AM. Reason: made some changes
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Old 26th May 2012, 10:40 AM   #8
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Cool !

Are you planning on two drivers in each box or four? Remember that efficiency / sensitivity is dependent on load impedance and series / parallel connection scheme.
So matching tweeter sensitivity needs to take that into account.

FWIW, at the price I'd put all 4 piezos in each box and pad them down if you need to. If you have any decent EQ available, you could bring down the top end with that and save a bit of amp power maybe.

Those Peerless tweeters look pretty good. Maybe make a smaller sub-baffle to mount the tweeters to, and then screw that to the cabinet baffle. Then you can try out all sorts of tweeter arrangements with minimum effort.

A word of warning - the Peerless (or any other traditional moving coil tweeter) WILL need a good, pretty steep crossover if it is to survive long term high SPL use.
If you've got plenty, use more of them and spread the power around.....

If you start cooking them, maybe look at polyswitch or fuse protection, although they do look like sturdy little buggers.


Rgds,
blakkwater
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Old 26th May 2012, 10:22 PM   #9
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The plan is the classic boominator 2 hp10w's per channel, the woofers look awesome, and solidly built! No wonder saturnus used them as the internal bracing :-)

Extra baffle for the tweeters sound like a good idea, I haven't bought the wood yet, but eyeing up some 12mm ply and will add some serious waterproofing treatment to the wood inside and out.

As I said before I have 8 of those horn tweeters, and 8 peerless so it will work out to 4 per channel. ( basically 2 x per woofer )

Just need to workout how to wire them up :-)
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Old 29th May 2012, 11:28 AM   #10
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I think THIS should be right for using 2 piezo's per channel, but I am not sure how to wire in 4 per channel.

And the resistors being 33 or 47ohm metal film 2W

Amp R + --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
Amp R - --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Paralleled with
+ --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
- --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -

Amp L + --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
Amp L - --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -
Paralleled with
+ --------- Woofer + --------- Resistor -------- Piezo +
- --------- Woofer - -------------------------- Piezo -

so to wire in 4 piezo's per Chanel would I parallel the piezo after the resistor, or series?

Sorry I tried doing a text diagram , but can't do it lol...
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