Madisound Speaker Store
Has anyone looked at this speaker? 1 liter VAS, 102Hz FS, .96 QTS. The 4 ohm version is similar, but the QTS is lower (.78). Frequency response drops very rapidly past 10,000hz.
What kind of cabinet would be suitable for this?
Has anyone looked at this speaker? 1 liter VAS, 102Hz FS, .96 QTS. The 4 ohm version is similar, but the QTS is lower (.78). Frequency response drops very rapidly past 10,000hz.
What kind of cabinet would be suitable for this?
I would guess the end of the graph is 20k. Doesn't look like it drops before 18.000 or so, unless you mean the off-axis graphs. But most full-rangers drop off-axis, don't they?
About the FU10RB
Hi Tom,
I am also interested in this driver but found little info. I emailed Seas and their reply follows - sounds like a small sealed cabinet is recommended. I might get a pair to try in a simple sealed cabinet, maybe try something a little more complicated later, assuming I can figure it out.
Rick
From Seas:
"Hi Richard,
This driver sounds really well, we are receiving a quite good feedback from our customers. I'm glad you decided to use it as well.
This driver is intended to be used as a full range driver for a compact system. We have built a prototype cabinet here of just 1liter and the measurements in the anechoic chamber revealed very good graphs. Since the FU10RB is a high Q driver, I do recommend to use a sealed box of 1 liter or more.
Some people use this driver accompanied by a woofer to get bit more lows when the big size of the final cabinet is not an issue.
I hope you find this information valuable.
have a nice day,
Diego Ivars
R&D Engineer"
Hi Tom,
I am also interested in this driver but found little info. I emailed Seas and their reply follows - sounds like a small sealed cabinet is recommended. I might get a pair to try in a simple sealed cabinet, maybe try something a little more complicated later, assuming I can figure it out.
Rick
From Seas:
"Hi Richard,
This driver sounds really well, we are receiving a quite good feedback from our customers. I'm glad you decided to use it as well.
This driver is intended to be used as a full range driver for a compact system. We have built a prototype cabinet here of just 1liter and the measurements in the anechoic chamber revealed very good graphs. Since the FU10RB is a high Q driver, I do recommend to use a sealed box of 1 liter or more.
Some people use this driver accompanied by a woofer to get bit more lows when the big size of the final cabinet is not an issue.
I hope you find this information valuable.
have a nice day,
Diego Ivars
R&D Engineer"
I have considered this driver on 2 different occasions in 2 different designs. Sorry to say I have not tried it yet. One design is an OB. The other is a 2-way utilizing an old Swan 305 with a fairly low cross point in the range of 80-400 Hz. Both designs show promise. Unfortunately I have for the time being ruled the driver out mostly for cost considerations. However, I ruled it out of the OB design because of the efficiency as well. The cost issue stems from the fact that I have a few 3”-4” full range drivers laying around that I can test design theory with for free. Not that I feel it is overpriced. I have utilized Seas drivers for many years and have found very few (a tweeter is the only one I can think of) that I had trouble working with. I am sure this 4” is no different. Sooner or later I will find a place for it because I think it is a “cool” little driver.
Historically, either an O.B., I.B. or TL with the latter normally providing the most usable gain BW plus it has the advantage of damping the driver’s impedance peak considerably.
TL based on Fs/Qts [flattest response] = 106.25 Hz
28.56” H x 4” W x 3.375” D
Driver at closed end [top] and add damping distributed along its length as required till it sounds good to you, probably between 4-8 oz of polyfil. Space it up enough to get the driver at ~seated ear height, preferably attached to a massive base, so it’s not easily knocked over; or if desktop or similar positioning, just space it up enough to not block its open end.
For a true floor-stander, use the same WxD and make it ~57.125” tall with the driver down ~19.93” and probably will need to double the stuffing density. This yields an I.B. response except better damped.
In either design, all dims are i.d. [inside].
GM
Questions about the FU10RB TL
GM - thanks for the advice. So for this driver a box to the dimensions you specify, open-ended at the bottom, would constitute a TL enclosure with nothing in the box except the stuffing?
If this is correct, what would be the effect of attaching a larger heavy base to the bottom and having the same size opening at the front (or back) of the enclosure instead of the bottom?
Thank you,
Rick
GM - thanks for the advice. So for this driver a box to the dimensions you specify, open-ended at the bottom, would constitute a TL enclosure with nothing in the box except the stuffing?
If this is correct, what would be the effect of attaching a larger heavy base to the bottom and having the same size opening at the front (or back) of the enclosure instead of the bottom?
Thank you,
Rick
You're welcome!
Correct.
That's fine if you make the pipe longer by however much the slot height opening is, which will be 3.375" or 4" depending on which side it is.
GM
Just one more question about the FU10RB
Hi GM,
I've read somewhere that a TL generally extends the lower frequency response by about 1/2 octave. From my understanding that means the FU10RB in the TL enclosure mentioned earlier would yield a frequency response in the Mid-80s. Is this correct?
Or, if not around 80 Hz, what could I expect? I understand a TL would not magically transform the FU10RB into a pair of floor-shakers but would hope for a bit lower in-room response than 100 Hz.
I guess one way to look at it is they (FU10RBs) would be something to play around with. I figure I could at least make a small full range version of the old Radio Shack Minimus 7 (or better?). Thanks again for your help.
Rick
Hi GM,
I've read somewhere that a TL generally extends the lower frequency response by about 1/2 octave. From my understanding that means the FU10RB in the TL enclosure mentioned earlier would yield a frequency response in the Mid-80s. Is this correct?
Or, if not around 80 Hz, what could I expect? I understand a TL would not magically transform the FU10RB into a pair of floor-shakers but would hope for a bit lower in-room response than 100 Hz.
I guess one way to look at it is they (FU10RBs) would be something to play around with. I figure I could at least make a small full range version of the old Radio Shack Minimus 7 (or better?). Thanks again for your help.
Rick
I understand!
As mentioned in an earlier post, I am also beginning the think these drivers are intended for use with a subwoofer which I do not prefer. I particularly want to build a small speaker using Seas or Scan-Speak drivers with decent bass response. I figure somewhere around 70 Hz would be good.
As a result, I'm leaning toward a building a small two way using one of the Seas 12 cm or 15 cm woofers and tweeter.
Thanks for your comments.
As mentioned in an earlier post, I am also beginning the think these drivers are intended for use with a subwoofer which I do not prefer. I particularly want to build a small speaker using Seas or Scan-Speak drivers with decent bass response. I figure somewhere around 70 Hz would be good.
As a result, I'm leaning toward a building a small two way using one of the Seas 12 cm or 15 cm woofers and tweeter.
Thanks for your comments.
Then why do you come to this forum when you obviously think that posters here are completely wrong? There are forums for multi-way speaker where you would be more comfortable. I for one will maintain that a 4" mid-tweet over a suitable woofer produces the best sound for my music.
Bob
Hello Mr. Brines!
And thanks for looking. I am interested in the FU10RB because:
1. I really want to build something other than a typical 2- or 3-way system
2. I've never heard a full-range system and,
3. I would like to try something using Scan-Speak or Seas drivers.
To me the FU10RB looks like a good starting point and, as you have noticed, some disagree. I'm certain Seas put a lot of R&D into the design of this driver and would like to try a pair.
Do you think these drivers, provided I put them is a suitable enclosure as suggested by GM, would be a good introduction into full-range drivers?
I am also interested in the Seas FA22RCZ but figure it best to start out slow and try to learn a bit along the way.
I appreciate any advice or comments. Thanks,
Rick
P.S. - Thank you for all the information available on your website.
And thanks for looking. I am interested in the FU10RB because:
1. I really want to build something other than a typical 2- or 3-way system
2. I've never heard a full-range system and,
3. I would like to try something using Scan-Speak or Seas drivers.
To me the FU10RB looks like a good starting point and, as you have noticed, some disagree. I'm certain Seas put a lot of R&D into the design of this driver and would like to try a pair.
Do you think these drivers, provided I put them is a suitable enclosure as suggested by GM, would be a good introduction into full-range drivers?
I am also interested in the Seas FA22RCZ but figure it best to start out slow and try to learn a bit along the way.
I appreciate any advice or comments. Thanks,
Rick
P.S. - Thank you for all the information available on your website.
OK, but I know from many others and my experience that as stated, this is generally an assumption that is at best only accurate for a specific type of TL alignment.
WRT this driver, its motor is so weak that there’s very little BW to actually load, hence the increased mid-bass hump, so any LF extension will be rolled off, though backed up against a wall and especially in a corner, the perceived bass can be surprisingly strong for a tiny driver.
Regardless, the alignment I posted earlier yields an I.B. response except better damped and should perform to the dashed blue line if setting on the ground out in a large field [2 pi space].
The red line sim is a MLTL you can cobble one together to see if its limited LF extension suits you and you can always extend it by increasing the vent length with the tradeoff of a more rolled off response.
L = 33”
CSA = 64.71”^2 [suggest 12.96” W x 8” D]
Zdriver = 11.5”
Zport = 31.5”
Rport = 1.5”
Lport = 0.75”
Density = 0.25 lbs/ft^3 of polyfil
All dims i.d. and approximate.
Note that this is only minimally damped, so can be smoothed more if need be at the expense of an earlier bass roll off. Not many ‘free lunches’ in audio design.
GM
Attachments
Stack em high...but not very cheap!
I just posted this on another thread but it seams to be appropriate with this Seas driver too...
" A great advantage of full range drivers is they can be DIY'd as modules, this can save money as you never need to upgrade or sell / give away old speakers, just keep adding more modules.
Just build a pair of simple sealed stackable box's with the right volume and internal damping for your chosen driver and cross them over to a sub ( 100Hz or below) or a decent bass / mid if crossing over up to 300Hz and you are up and running.
Then as time and funds allow, and IF(broad church of listeners and all that!!) you feel the need for greater dynamics / lower distortion etc simply build another pair or two pairs and so on until you reach what ever level of performance your heart desires...Or you run of money!
This also is great if you move house or need to change listening rooms or add more rooms ie small system in kids room / kitchen and bigger system in lounge.
Just make sure the boxes are as small in height as possible as you need to minimise centre to centre driver spacing, esp with small or mini arrays that suffer from floor / celing bounce cancelations."
Hope this helps
Cheers
D.
PS Seas have very good quality control so if you do decide to stack em high the drivers will all blend and perform well.
I just posted this on another thread but it seams to be appropriate with this Seas driver too...
" A great advantage of full range drivers is they can be DIY'd as modules, this can save money as you never need to upgrade or sell / give away old speakers, just keep adding more modules.
Just build a pair of simple sealed stackable box's with the right volume and internal damping for your chosen driver and cross them over to a sub ( 100Hz or below) or a decent bass / mid if crossing over up to 300Hz and you are up and running.
Then as time and funds allow, and IF(broad church of listeners and all that!!) you feel the need for greater dynamics / lower distortion etc simply build another pair or two pairs and so on until you reach what ever level of performance your heart desires...Or you run of money!
This also is great if you move house or need to change listening rooms or add more rooms ie small system in kids room / kitchen and bigger system in lounge.
Just make sure the boxes are as small in height as possible as you need to minimise centre to centre driver spacing, esp with small or mini arrays that suffer from floor / celing bounce cancelations."
Hope this helps
Cheers
D.
PS Seas have very good quality control so if you do decide to stack em high the drivers will all blend and perform well.
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