I had some FF225K's in Jericho cabs a while back, and think that kind of thing would be ideal for my new Decware Zen 2wpc SET, but obviously not available anymore.
FF165WK Measurement-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/192086-now-ff165wk.html
FE166en Measurement-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/170343-some-fr-measurements-new-fe166en.html
Now, one thing I dont get on with, is sibilance, which initially lead me towards the FF##5WK series after my experience with the FF225K, but they dont seem to look as smooth as the older versions, additionally the FE166en looks and apparently sounds quite smooth.
I gather that both the FF165WK and FF225WK would need a super tweeter, FWIW, I found the FF225K ok without a super tweeter.
My room is not large, and high SPL/Bass depth are not as issue, so which do you think may get the closest to the FF225K but in a smaller ported enclosure?
I am after dynamics and open midrange at lower volumes, something I dont think I would get with smaller drivers (IME like the Veravox 5S for example).
I had thought about a bi-pole to get 4Ohms (and higher efficiency) out of some smaller drivers (like the Fountek FE87 that I have spare), as the Zen apparently likes lower impedance/higher efficiency speaker but I dont really have the room to bring the speakers away from the wall.
Ta, Rob
FF165WK Measurement-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/192086-now-ff165wk.html
FE166en Measurement-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/170343-some-fr-measurements-new-fe166en.html
Now, one thing I dont get on with, is sibilance, which initially lead me towards the FF##5WK series after my experience with the FF225K, but they dont seem to look as smooth as the older versions, additionally the FE166en looks and apparently sounds quite smooth.
I gather that both the FF165WK and FF225WK would need a super tweeter, FWIW, I found the FF225K ok without a super tweeter.
My room is not large, and high SPL/Bass depth are not as issue, so which do you think may get the closest to the FF225K but in a smaller ported enclosure?
I am after dynamics and open midrange at lower volumes, something I dont think I would get with smaller drivers (IME like the Veravox 5S for example).
I had thought about a bi-pole to get 4Ohms (and higher efficiency) out of some smaller drivers (like the Fountek FE87 that I have spare), as the Zen apparently likes lower impedance/higher efficiency speaker but I dont really have the room to bring the speakers away from the wall.
Ta, Rob
Last edited:
Rob, if you found the FF225K OK without a super tweeter, I'd imagine you'd find at least the same of the FF165WK ( a very competent replacement to the FE167E)
Smaller ported enclosure, hmmm how much smaller than a Jericho? If you mean floorspace, how about a Metronome? I've yet to build one ( I might have heard a bipole with 4" fostex or Hemps a few years back, but it's honestly hard to remember them all - it's too bad I didn't keep a "listening diary" over the past 20yrs, but that would take all the fun out of actively reconstructing the memories
)
With the Zen C amp, of the drivers named, I'd be inclined towards the FE166En, which works very in a larger BLH such as BIB, and Woden Victor, but neither could be considered "small"
Smaller ported enclosure, hmmm how much smaller than a Jericho? If you mean floorspace, how about a Metronome? I've yet to build one ( I might have heard a bipole with 4" fostex or Hemps a few years back, but it's honestly hard to remember them all - it's too bad I didn't keep a "listening diary" over the past 20yrs, but that would take all the fun out of actively reconstructing the memories
) With the Zen C amp, of the drivers named, I'd be inclined towards the FE166En, which works very in a larger BLH such as BIB, and Woden Victor, but neither could be considered "small"
You can try my design ; Has been build several times. Most people use a EL84 SE amp ( 2x 3 watts) even in larger rooms.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/204030-fe166en-ft17h-concerti-clone-lots-pics.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/204030-fe166en-ft17h-concerti-clone-lots-pics.html
I really dont have room for horns to be honest, hence looking at ported enclosures. This was my old room with the Jericho's and some ATC SCM7 for size comparison-
image0045u by hoopsontoast, on Flickr
The current room with Keesonic Kolts (even smaller than the SCM7's and on the same stands)
System by hoopsontoast, on Flickr
Decware Zen by hoopsontoast, on Flickr
image0045u by hoopsontoast, on Flickr
The current room with Keesonic Kolts (even smaller than the SCM7's and on the same stands)
System by hoopsontoast, on Flickr
Decware Zen by hoopsontoast, on Flickr
Chris, you did hear a pair of HA FR4.5c mets, 4 or 5 years ago at diyFEST.
From listening to FF125/165wk my feeling is that they are smoother than the previous deneration, and are largely missing the annoying JX92-like HF hash that i find so annoying.
Whereas the previous generation of FFs were more suited to enclosures similar to the FExx6, the new FF like boxes even smaller than the FExx7 series,
My pick of the lot is the FF85wk (with helper woofer, but not with ZEN), at the other end the FF225wk probably needs a helper tweeter, althou if you could live without in the prev generation, you can probably live without on the newer.
Our Fonken225s will be in 13-39 litre boxes. FF165 maxs out in about 17 litre.
dave
From listening to FF125/165wk my feeling is that they are smoother than the previous deneration, and are largely missing the annoying JX92-like HF hash that i find so annoying.
Whereas the previous generation of FFs were more suited to enclosures similar to the FExx6, the new FF like boxes even smaller than the FExx7 series,
My pick of the lot is the FF85wk (with helper woofer, but not with ZEN), at the other end the FF225wk probably needs a helper tweeter, althou if you could live without in the prev generation, you can probably live without on the newer.
Our Fonken225s will be in 13-39 litre boxes. FF165 maxs out in about 17 litre.
dave
Thanks, Bob Brines seems fine with the FF165WK/FF225WK on their own-
M12-F165
http://brinesacoustics.com/Pages/B12-F165/Main.html
M18-F225
M12-F165
http://brinesacoustics.com/Pages/B12-F165/Main.html
M18-F225
thought so - but I honestly can't remember my impressions
Keep in mind that the Zen is very happy into lower impedance loads, so if you can accommodate them, something like dual FF125WK in a castle style MLTL might be worth consideration. Since both the small monitors in the photos are shown on stands, and not tight to/hung on walls, a pair of floorstanders would occupy the same (or less) real estate, not to mention save cost on stands.
Anyone know what size enclosure this is for the FF166en? a DBR?
???????????????
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
???????????????
advice on Fostex FF85WK as a midrange please
Hi, quite new here, though I have often found useful and interesting talk here as a passive participant.
I want to use a Fostex FR driver for a midrange in a new 3 way. Considering the FF85WK. Wondering though about the lowish 86db efficiency and 5 watt power handling.
I have had good results using circa 2008 Fostex FE126e as a midrange in a 3 way between circa 1970 JBL LE14a and circa 1980 EPI inverse dome tweeter. The pair did very well in the PNWAS speaker contest, with much of the credit rightly going to our local crossover prodigy D.R. (I don't know his handle here)who designed the crossover after patiently corresponding and testing my drivers.
Planet10 has the respect of members of our local DIY club, so I look with interest at his choice of the FF85WK as a winner for smoothness. In my previous design, the roughness/peakiness in the FE126e was largely designed around in the crossover, crossing over to the EPI tweeter around 4500 hz.
I wonder if the FF85WK crossed over at 500/5000 hz would handle enough power to match the volume of a JBL LE10a woofer--- and would it be efficient enough? In the previous design, we had to bring the 93db FE126e down with a 20ohm resistor, to match the LE14a woofer. I think the LE14a(90db) is nominally 1 db more efficient than the LE10a(89db) that I now want to use. But the FF85WK is only 86db efficient, according to sales info online.
Any feedback/ideas?
Very little out there about using these old JBL woofers in 1/4 wave pipes, but if my experiments with the LE 10a in a folded version of a mass loaded TL(?)(like the C and C "Abbey") are successful, I will let you know. I got very low bass from an LE8t a few years back---actually measured in the 20hz region---but may have been due to anomalies of the testing environment.
Thanks!
Howard
Hi, quite new here, though I have often found useful and interesting talk here as a passive participant.
I want to use a Fostex FR driver for a midrange in a new 3 way. Considering the FF85WK. Wondering though about the lowish 86db efficiency and 5 watt power handling.
I have had good results using circa 2008 Fostex FE126e as a midrange in a 3 way between circa 1970 JBL LE14a and circa 1980 EPI inverse dome tweeter. The pair did very well in the PNWAS speaker contest, with much of the credit rightly going to our local crossover prodigy D.R. (I don't know his handle here)who designed the crossover after patiently corresponding and testing my drivers.
Planet10 has the respect of members of our local DIY club, so I look with interest at his choice of the FF85WK as a winner for smoothness. In my previous design, the roughness/peakiness in the FE126e was largely designed around in the crossover, crossing over to the EPI tweeter around 4500 hz.
I wonder if the FF85WK crossed over at 500/5000 hz would handle enough power to match the volume of a JBL LE10a woofer--- and would it be efficient enough? In the previous design, we had to bring the 93db FE126e down with a 20ohm resistor, to match the LE14a woofer. I think the LE14a(90db) is nominally 1 db more efficient than the LE10a(89db) that I now want to use. But the FF85WK is only 86db efficient, according to sales info online.
Any feedback/ideas?
Very little out there about using these old JBL woofers in 1/4 wave pipes, but if my experiments with the LE 10a in a folded version of a mass loaded TL(?)(like the C and C "Abbey") are successful, I will let you know. I got very low bass from an LE8t a few years back---actually measured in the 20hz region---but may have been due to anomalies of the testing environment.
Thanks!
Howard
With this 14" woofer, you will not be hitting a baffle-step frequency much above 300Hz. FF85WK's tiny Xmax is easily exceeded with a few watts of power, even high-passed at 300Hz, so it depends on how loud you need things to get on that system. Owning a pair of FF85WK, they still sound clean to me with excursion beyond Xmax (do we know how Fostex specifies this figure - 0.707*BL maybe or XX% THD?). High-passing at 500Hz is already a big improvement and allows for a lot more power, ~16W to hit Xmax. Maybe you can tweak the crossover's low-pass leg to fake some early BSC on the woofer and still have both drivers meet correctly.
IG
IG
howardg,
Did you look at the FE103en? I just bought a pair of these & find them much to my liking. I also have used FF85k (older version of the FF85) in three projects and find them extremely nice. That said, the 103 is a nice smooth driver w/o (as far as I can tell) the peakiness of the FE126, and it can play a bit louder than the FF85.
Cheers, Jim
Did you look at the FE103en? I just bought a pair of these & find them much to my liking. I also have used FF85k (older version of the FF85) in three projects and find them extremely nice. That said, the 103 is a nice smooth driver w/o (as far as I can tell) the peakiness of the FE126, and it can play a bit louder than the FF85.
Cheers, Jim
Hi Jim Shearer,
There is so much to love about the 103 (tone-wise) with none of that peakiness found in the 126. I believe you also have some Mets with the FE108E-Sigma and either FX120 or F120A if I'm not mistaken? At some point, I'd love to hear any comparisons you have.
(I've made my own comparisons, but would love to hear yours because I love all those drivers, but each for different reasons -- but at the moment, the 103 plus a Bottlehead SET is the best system I've managed to assemble, for my taste or lack thereof!)
There is so much to love about the 103 (tone-wise) with none of that peakiness found in the 126. I believe you also have some Mets with the FE108E-Sigma and either FX120 or F120A if I'm not mistaken? At some point, I'd love to hear any comparisons you have.
(I've made my own comparisons, but would love to hear yours because I love all those drivers, but each for different reasons -- but at the moment, the 103 plus a Bottlehead SET is the best system I've managed to assemble, for my taste or lack thereof!)
Thanks for the thoughtful responses!
Kind of dumb that I didn't notice that I was in the single driver forum. I have quite a bit of interest in this area though. Previous successful builds include an FE126 in what amounts to a ¼ wave type horn-similar expansion to CHEAP TRICK, HORNSHOPPE(from what can be eyeballed online) and others---that ended up having a closed down mouth and became kind of a mass loaded horn----in that it retained it's compression chamber and expansion geometry but lost 2/3 of it's mouth size. This happened while experimenting to fill in a 4db lull around 160hz---it worked. They ended with a somewhat more resonant pipe like character, but lots of bass for a 4.5” 93db driver. Also made a ¼ wave horn (not mass loaded) with an FE206e and an 8” SEAS PR on the back side of the compression chamber, in which the horn and the PR each effectively contribute to the bass output.
Dave, Thanks for the guidelines on relative woofer/mid efficiency and woofer BS considerations. It sounds like the 3db difference between the woofer and the mid would be about right. Also hopefully the MLTL-like design will bring up the lowest octave.
IG81, My writing was probably a bit confusing, but I want to use the 10” LE10a in this new design. That should help a bit. I think JBL ran this woofer without low pass filter in the L77 of the 1960's so it may do fine crossed over kinda high-but somebody may know better than I about that.
Jim, I have looked at the fe103. My recent interest in the FF series was prompted by positive comments from a friend at our club who was sharing his older (discontinued) ENABLED FE127s in nice looking resistive-slot ported bamboo cabinets. He felt the FF series to be a step up from the older FE line. But I am curious about the FE103. I also have been looking at the higher priced full ranges from CSS(still reasonable) and the MARKAUDIO line(though I think I would tend to use these for something other than an expensive midrange). Part of the fun of this stuff is making something nice for little money. The 14” 3 way ended up with a crossover that rivaled the price of the drivers-the drivers being old.
Kind of dumb that I didn't notice that I was in the single driver forum. I have quite a bit of interest in this area though. Previous successful builds include an FE126 in what amounts to a ¼ wave type horn-similar expansion to CHEAP TRICK, HORNSHOPPE(from what can be eyeballed online) and others---that ended up having a closed down mouth and became kind of a mass loaded horn----in that it retained it's compression chamber and expansion geometry but lost 2/3 of it's mouth size. This happened while experimenting to fill in a 4db lull around 160hz---it worked. They ended with a somewhat more resonant pipe like character, but lots of bass for a 4.5” 93db driver. Also made a ¼ wave horn (not mass loaded) with an FE206e and an 8” SEAS PR on the back side of the compression chamber, in which the horn and the PR each effectively contribute to the bass output.
Dave, Thanks for the guidelines on relative woofer/mid efficiency and woofer BS considerations. It sounds like the 3db difference between the woofer and the mid would be about right. Also hopefully the MLTL-like design will bring up the lowest octave.
IG81, My writing was probably a bit confusing, but I want to use the 10” LE10a in this new design. That should help a bit. I think JBL ran this woofer without low pass filter in the L77 of the 1960's so it may do fine crossed over kinda high-but somebody may know better than I about that.
Jim, I have looked at the fe103. My recent interest in the FF series was prompted by positive comments from a friend at our club who was sharing his older (discontinued) ENABLED FE127s in nice looking resistive-slot ported bamboo cabinets. He felt the FF series to be a step up from the older FE line. But I am curious about the FE103. I also have been looking at the higher priced full ranges from CSS(still reasonable) and the MARKAUDIO line(though I think I would tend to use these for something other than an expensive midrange). Part of the fun of this stuff is making something nice for little money. The 14” 3 way ended up with a crossover that rivaled the price of the drivers-the drivers being old.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.