Hi guys
I´m starting to feel bad about asking so many questions and advices, as I´m a little bit short on knowledge but here it goes...
I had the Beyma 8ag/n on the famous "viech" BLH and it just didn´t work out for me unfortunately. I became a fan of full range drivers and appreciate it´s advantages, but there was no bass at all.
However, I know of somebody who tried the beyma´s in a mass loaded tqwt and bass wise, it is known to be a completely different story!
Unfortunately, I can´t find plans to try it for myself. Is there any way I can calculate dimensions or details on construction?
I have very limited experience and generally, I just follow plans and build stuff. Is there an easy way to do this?
If there is a software, is it easy enough for me to understand? I mean, I have no knowledge on the subject...
Thank you in advance for any replies!
I´m starting to feel bad about asking so many questions and advices, as I´m a little bit short on knowledge but here it goes...
I had the Beyma 8ag/n on the famous "viech" BLH and it just didn´t work out for me unfortunately. I became a fan of full range drivers and appreciate it´s advantages, but there was no bass at all.
However, I know of somebody who tried the beyma´s in a mass loaded tqwt and bass wise, it is known to be a completely different story!
Unfortunately, I can´t find plans to try it for myself. Is there any way I can calculate dimensions or details on construction?
I have very limited experience and generally, I just follow plans and build stuff. Is there an easy way to do this?
If there is a software, is it easy enough for me to understand? I mean, I have no knowledge on the subject...
Thank you in advance for any replies!
You can try many kinds of acoustic loads for it , but the Beyma specifications say it (all):
with 30/70 W power handling and the major sensitivity located in the mid-hi regions ,whatever kind of music program will be 'executed' with that kind of response , dictated by high ( 60 Hz ) Fs , low excursion ( being the suspension 'stiff' or tough ), so the mass of air inside the cabinet would hardly cooperate with the cone movement .
A different loudspeaker ,projected for having different Cms, Vas ,Xmax etc etc Motor ,membrane ,voice coil would then produce better bass ; nowadays that is easily achieved by having in the end a low sensitivity speaker ,though it may be not suited to work in TL !
with 30/70 W power handling and the major sensitivity located in the mid-hi regions ,whatever kind of music program will be 'executed' with that kind of response , dictated by high ( 60 Hz ) Fs , low excursion ( being the suspension 'stiff' or tough ), so the mass of air inside the cabinet would hardly cooperate
with the cone movement .A different loudspeaker ,projected for having different Cms, Vas ,Xmax etc etc Motor ,membrane ,voice coil would then produce better bass ; nowadays that is easily achieved by having in the end a low sensitivity speaker ,though it may be not suited to work in TL !
Yeah, I know it´s hard to squeeze some bass out of the darn things, but according to diyer Jon Agner, it works, because he has tried it.
Unfortunately, I´ve never managed to ask him the plans for it, just that they were calculated with MJK´s software.
I´m going to try some other speakers in the viech box, but in the meantime, the cheapest way for me is to invest in another kind of acoustic load with this driver.
Unfortunately, I´ve never managed to ask him the plans for it, just that they were calculated with MJK´s software.
I´m going to try some other speakers in the viech box, but in the meantime, the cheapest way for me is to invest in another kind of acoustic load with this driver.
I believe that a 'soft' suspension loudspeaker would do the thing easily.
It's cheaper and more rewarding , classifying the product as a first step
for entering 'hi-fi' , as you can do as many experiments as you want , but the robustness and solidity of a low bass note ...is defined as it is !
Then , you just pay 10€ each 10 W in progression , ranging from 40 to 200 !!
What you pay for ? Just different driver construction for keeping up with the power , and that starts from the wire in the voice coil , the voice coil itself ,etc etc . I'm putting it also from a point of view of the 'magical side' of technology ,which may have these potions to produce the effect .
BLH is another kind . It produces some sound by directing the back wave trough an increasing volume of air , then sums the product to the front wave , and there's some delay due to the distance ( different path ) ,which may cause
some cancellations and similar effects
It's cheaper and more rewarding , classifying the product as a first step
for entering 'hi-fi' , as you can do as many experiments as you want , but the robustness and solidity of a low bass note ...is defined as it is !
Then , you just pay 10€ each 10 W in progression , ranging from 40 to 200 !!
What you pay for ? Just different driver construction for keeping up with the power , and that starts from the wire in the voice coil , the voice coil itself ,etc etc . I'm putting it also from a point of view of the 'magical side' of technology ,which may have these potions to produce the effect .
BLH is another kind . It produces some sound by directing the back wave trough an increasing volume of air , then sums the product to the front wave , and there's some delay due to the distance ( different path ) ,which may cause
some cancellations and similar
effects
OK, is it documented? How much bass? I mean this driver's published specs limits usable box loading only down to around ~105*1.15/2 = 60.4 Hz.
GM
Hi GM
It is documented by a fellow diy´er, Jon Agner. He said he stopped tuning at 35hz or something like that. I didn´t needed it to go that low but, he says they sounded very good. He now uses the exact same box (me thinks) with a philipinno made 8" full range, judging from the pictures...
All I know is that it was a folded mass loaded tqwt.
It is documented by a fellow diy´er, Jon Agner. He said he stopped tuning at 35hz or something like that. I didn´t needed it to go that low but, he says they sounded very good. He now uses the exact same box (me thinks) with a philipinno made 8" full range, judging from the pictures...
All I know is that it was a folded mass loaded tqwt.
Greets!
All I found was an invalid photo link from 2008. Regardless, there's no way to get a lot of gain out of a vented alignment that is tuned below the lower mass corner and what is doable requires a very large cab, especially for such a high Qts driver. Even then this assumes the published specs applies to your drivers, which I seriously doubt.
Anyway, it's going to take at least a ~10.74 ft^3 MLTL cab to get down into the 30s even at a very rolled off output. If he’s doing it in a ML-TQWT of less net Vb, then its LF output will be less also [excluding any room gain of course].
The 1st sim is tuned to ~41 Hz [12" dia. reflex vent] and the 2nd at ~35 Hz [8" dia. reflex vent].
GM
All I found was an invalid photo link from 2008. Regardless, there's no way to get a lot of gain out of a vented alignment that is tuned below the lower mass corner and what is doable requires a very large cab, especially for such a high Qts driver. Even then this assumes the published specs applies to your drivers, which I seriously doubt.
Anyway, it's going to take at least a ~10.74 ft^3 MLTL cab to get down into the 30s even at a very rolled off output. If he’s doing it in a ML-TQWT of less net Vb, then its LF output will be less also [excluding any room gain of course].
The 1st sim is tuned to ~41 Hz [12" dia. reflex vent] and the 2nd at ~35 Hz [8" dia. reflex vent].
GM
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Hi GM
Sure, it would be big, but I´m already living with these huge blh in my living room, so I´m not expecting anything out of the ordinary...
He got some help from MJK(?) and his software and one thing i know of, theres a port firing below the box. I´m not a fan of subwoofers, I just wanted my music with a little more foundation that´s all. In my living room, unfortunately, BLH don´t get along well, maybe if I had a bit more room they would be enough, but they are bastards regarding positioning. So this would be a huge improvement for me. Could you help me out with some box dimensions?
Sure, it would be big, but I´m already living with these huge blh in my living room, so I´m not expecting anything out of the ordinary...
He got some help from MJK(?) and his software and one thing i know of, theres a port firing below the box. I´m not a fan of subwoofers, I just wanted my music with a little more foundation that´s all. In my living room, unfortunately, BLH don´t get along well, maybe if I had a bit more room they would be enough, but they are bastards regarding positioning. So this would be a huge improvement for me. Could you help me out with some box dimensions?
OK, not familiar with the Viech. I just assumed it was a relatively small horn tuned high due to the high Fs.
OK, floor loading the vent can be either a benefit or not depending on the room design/construction and speaker location. Most times I prefer floor loading FWIW.
All dims i.d. and approximate! At this size, no need for much in the way of accuracy.
L = 56.84”
Zdriver = 19.84”
Zport = 50” or in the bottom
Dport= 8” – 12” depending on tuning
Lport = 0.75”
S0-SL = 326.5”^2 [recommend as wide a baffle as you can tolerate with the limit being 54.4”]
Simmed with 0.35 lbs/ft^3 of polyfil stuffing along its entire length, but most folks seem to prefer less than what MJK’s software predicts, so let your ears guide you.
For bottom firing vent, space the cab up ~3.68” and drop the driver down to ~23.5” i.d.. In both cases this assumes a ~38” seated ear height, so if it’s way off let me know.
GM
OK, floor loading the vent can be either a benefit or not depending on the room design/construction and speaker location. Most times I prefer floor loading FWIW.
All dims i.d. and approximate! At this size, no need for much in the way of accuracy.
L = 56.84”
Zdriver = 19.84”
Zport = 50” or in the bottom
Dport= 8” – 12” depending on tuning
Lport = 0.75”
S0-SL = 326.5”^2 [recommend as wide a baffle as you can tolerate with the limit being 54.4”]
Simmed with 0.35 lbs/ft^3 of polyfil stuffing along its entire length, but most folks seem to prefer less than what MJK’s software predicts, so let your ears guide you.
For bottom firing vent, space the cab up ~3.68” and drop the driver down to ~23.5” i.d.. In both cases this assumes a ~38” seated ear height, so if it’s way off let me know.
GM
errrr... Thanks GM
I´m still trying to "compute" all the data you presented. Zdriver and Zport and such...
That´s why I haven´t replied earlier. I´ve been trying to figure it out yet in terms of dimensions, but I´ll get there, don´t worry!
But in an earlier post, you actually said that it would be better off in a sealed enclosure?
My head is about to burst...
Honestly, with a qts of about 1, how could it work well in a horn this Beyma?
Everywhere I get a post about high qts, it states that it´s only good for OB!
It kind of makes sense, ´cause what we see in BLH´s are usually drivers with relatively low qts.
Besides open baffle, what could one do with this driver? That´s why I´ve been insisting with it!
Thanks for all your help GM, I guess I really have to step up a bit in knowledge to get to the point, but I will not give up!
I´m still trying to "compute" all the data you presented. Zdriver and Zport and such...
That´s why I haven´t replied earlier. I´ve been trying to figure it out yet in terms of dimensions, but I´ll get there, don´t worry!
But in an earlier post, you actually said that it would be better off in a sealed enclosure?
My head is about to burst...
Honestly, with a qts of about 1, how could it work well in a horn this Beyma?
Everywhere I get a post about high qts, it states that it´s only good for OB!
It kind of makes sense, ´cause what we see in BLH´s are usually drivers with relatively low qts.
Besides open baffle, what could one do with this driver? That´s why I´ve been insisting with it!
Thanks for all your help GM, I guess I really have to step up a bit in knowledge to get to the point, but I will not give up!
You're welcome!
MJK's MathCad software is popular around here, so tend to use some/all of his monikers. All dims are measured from the top and to the center-lines of a driver, vent.
L [height] = 56.84”
Zdriver = 19.84”
Zport = 50” or in the bottom
Diameter of port = 8” – 12” depending on tuning
Length of port = 0.75”
S0-SL [width x depth] = 326.5”^2 [recommend as wide a baffle as you can tolerate with the limit being 54.4”]
No, I was just noting that the venting you mentioned would be a waste of time if used in the cab I suggested.
Well, you can design a horn to damp down the driver Qts, but these tend to over-damp the driver's HF response, so generally not a good choice for something like the 8AG/N. Better to use a well stuffed TL.
OBs are good for high Qts since it reduces baffle size and can acoustically damp the driver somewhat with the trade-off being less bass output, but is hardly the only tuning option when space isn't an issue.
Again, no knowledge of the Viech design, but if properly done it shouldn't need any BSC in the app it was designed for..............
Here's a sim of an 83 Hz Fs/2.45 Qts ~30-300 Hz compression horn I did some years ago. Much too large to build to see how accurate MJK's software is, but it was calculated using Prof. Leach's horn math to prove that even a ridiculously high Qts could be compression loaded, so fairly confident that at least at small signal levels it would perform close enough to predicted up to at least 100 Hz:
GM
MJK's MathCad software is popular around here, so tend to use some/all of his monikers. All dims are measured from the top and to the center-lines of a driver, vent.
L [height] = 56.84”
Zdriver = 19.84”
Zport = 50” or in the bottom
Diameter of port = 8” – 12” depending on tuning
Length of port = 0.75”
S0-SL [width x depth] = 326.5”^2 [recommend as wide a baffle as you can tolerate with the limit being 54.4”]
No, I was just noting that the venting you mentioned would be a waste of time if used in the cab I suggested.
Well, you can design a horn to damp down the driver Qts, but these tend to over-damp the driver's HF response, so generally not a good choice for something like the 8AG/N. Better to use a well stuffed TL.
OBs are good for high Qts since it reduces baffle size and can acoustically damp the driver somewhat with the trade-off being less bass output, but is hardly the only tuning option when space isn't an issue.
Again, no knowledge of the Viech design, but if properly done it shouldn't need any BSC in the app it was designed for..............
Here's a sim of an 83 Hz Fs/2.45 Qts ~30-300 Hz compression horn I did some years ago. Much too large to build to see how accurate MJK's software is, but it was calculated using Prof. Leach's horn math to prove that even a ridiculously high Qts could be compression loaded, so fairly confident that at least at small signal levels it would perform close enough to predicted up to at least 100 Hz:
GM
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Hi GM
I´m very thankful of all your help, gotta buy you a beer when you come visit our beautiful but broke country!
It´s not worth building this box for me, I guess that the simulations rest here for someone more fortunate. They wouldn´t work in my listening environment, here´s why.
I have horrible acoustics in my listening room... I borrowed a cd with frequency tones and to my surprise, I have come to the conclusion that I get no bass from the vieche´s because I have a big bass null around 59hz up to 75hz, and thats where all the juice is with these speakers. Thats why it sounds so dry and boring... then, major bass boom from 80z to 90z, then 110hz... it´s a bloody bad place to be for sure...
Even with rockwool scattered around I managed only mild results, not really bass traps but...
Acoustics is a pain in the *** that´s for sure. (excuse the french)
I´m very thankful of all your help, gotta buy you a beer when you come visit our beautiful but broke country!
It´s not worth building this box for me, I guess that the simulations rest here for someone more fortunate. They wouldn´t work in my listening environment, here´s why.
I have horrible acoustics in my listening room... I borrowed a cd with frequency tones and to my surprise, I have come to the conclusion that I get no bass from the vieche´s because I have a big bass null around 59hz up to 75hz, and thats where all the juice is with these speakers. Thats why it sounds so dry and boring... then, major bass boom from 80z to 90z, then 110hz... it´s a bloody bad place to be for sure...
Even with rockwool scattered around I managed only mild results, not really bass traps but...
Acoustics is a pain in the *** that´s for sure. (excuse the french)
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