OK, but again, you don’t seem to be learning the basics, i.e. T/S, TL, horn, XO, etc., theory otherwise you would be answering most of your questions and would have enough knowledge to reason out many others, i.e. separate the ‘wheat from the chaff’ and/or when breaking the rules is acceptable to meet the needs of the app.
T/S theory should answer all the basic tuning questions you’ve asked so far and I’ve already posted why tuning low would be desirable in your stated app. The one ‘piece of the puzzle’ that I don’t recall seeing in T/S [been several decades since I last studied it], but in a Don Keele AES paper, is the driver’s max box loading BW, which is centered at Fs:
Flm = Fs*Qts/2
Fhm = Fs*2/Qts
See what happens when you don’t follow this rule on the low end no matter how big the box: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/211488-mass-loaded-tqwt-beyma-8ag-n.html
You’re welcome; closure comes with learning the basics and any minor discrepancies between theory and my suggestions can be attributed to a fair amount of experience
. Good luck with the project.GM
OK, but again, you don’t seem to be learning the basics, i.e. T/S, TL, horn, XO, etc., theory otherwise you would be answering most of your questions and would have enough knowledge to reason out many others, i.e. separate the ‘wheat from the chaff’ and/or when breaking the rules is acceptable to meet the needs of the app.
T/S theory should answer all the basic tuning questions you’ve asked so far and I’ve already posted why tuning low would be desirable in your stated app. The one ‘piece of the puzzle’ that I don’t recall seeing in T/S [been several decades since I last studied it], but in a Don Keele AES paper, is the driver’s max box loading BW, which is centered at Fs:
Flm = Fs*Qts/2
Fhm = Fs*2/Qts
See what happens when you don’t follow this rule on the low end no matter how big the box: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/211488-mass-loaded-tqwt-beyma-8ag-n.html
You’re welcome; closure comes with learning the basics and any minor discrepancies between theory and my suggestions can be attributed to a fair amount of experience
GM
i'm really sorry to ask this, what does flm + fhm stand for? is it something to do with horn flare and length?
i've been looking for books to read up entirely on things i'm missing (thus far i've been trying to find info step by step and seemingly its not gone well), would this be a reasonable purchase?
Amazon.com: Loudspeaker Design Cookbook (9781882580477): Vance Dickason: Books
a great basic book, but I doubt it would very well cover some of the areas that you're investigating
i just need something that teaches me the obvious stuff that GM says i'm oblivious to. do you have any suggestions? i was just planning on thread spamming at each hurdle but i feel my welcome may wear thin if i do this.
thanks for your help.
How about here? Horn Theory
To be honest, it seems like you don't do any searching on your own, for the "obvious" things like definitions.
To be honest, it seems like you don't do any searching on your own, for the "obvious" things like definitions.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_en-gbGB470GB470&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Fhm
look what happens if you search for FHM in google.
or Fhm loudspeaker
https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz...70&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Fhm+loudpseaker
its easy to make smart **** comments when you know the answer.
Hi gafhenderson, the advantage of simulation software is you really don't need to master physics and electronics. But if you want to drill down into driver parameters and horn math, search (for example) for all these together:
Fs Qts Fhm Flm (or add Qes, Qms, etc.)
Searching for them together is what brings up the relevant info.
Personally, looking back on my 4 or 5 years here, if I could go back and start over, I'd just use the simulation software, and build more speakers. Everyone needs a dose of theory, but the question is, how much do you need? In my case, I wasted too much time trying to comprehend the deep-down stuff, and I almost forgot to build speakers!
Fs Qts Fhm Flm (or add Qes, Qms, etc.)
Searching for them together is what brings up the relevant info.
Personally, looking back on my 4 or 5 years here, if I could go back and start over, I'd just use the simulation software, and build more speakers. Everyone needs a dose of theory, but the question is, how much do you need? In my case, I wasted too much time trying to comprehend the deep-down stuff, and I almost forgot to build speakers!
Hi Gaf,
I'm just getting going with the horn thing too. It's hard to get your head around everything, for sure. I think GM does try to help in his own way; don't take it too hard. He's a seasoned vet and we're not and as such doesn't have patience for people who don't do their homework, even if we feel we are. I am the same way at my job. If I feel that a trainee isn't trying to get down the fundamentals, I'm quite annoyed when they don't look for answers and just expect me to give them. That being said, you clearly have tried to get things going. I haven't gotten mathcad fired up yet, mainly due to the 50some page manual I have to get through.
What I started using is hornresp. Have you tried it yet? It's fairly intuitive once you get through a couple of tutorials found here:
Hornresp for Dum... hmm... Everyone
- Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.comThere is also an official pdf hornresp manual online. Sorry, lost the link.
I started using it because it's free and am working on, well, not a horn. I'm trying a BVR sub. GM has chimed in on my thread too, found here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/211847-bvr-modeling.html
To the previous post; I find no crime in messing around with software as part of the learning process. That's why I go to forums like this. Of course we need to learn the fundamentals, but we all learn in different ways and one persons fundamentals may be advanced for another.
I look forward to seeing your progress as part of my own education and hope to see a build at some point too!
Best of luck.
Hi Gaf,
I'm just getting going with the horn thing too. It's hard to get your head around everything, for sure. I think GM does try to help in his own way; don't take it too hard. He's a seasoned vet and we're not and as such doesn't have patience for people who don't do their homework, even if we feel we are. I am the same way at my job. If I feel that a trainee isn't trying to get down the fundamentals, I'm quite annoyed when they don't look for answers and just expect me to give them. That being said, you clearly have tried to get things going. I haven't gotten mathcad fired up yet, mainly due to the 50some page manual I have to get through.
What I started using is hornresp. Have you tried it yet? It's fairly intuitive once you get through a couple of tutorials found here:
Hornresp for Dum... hmm... Everyone
There is also an official pdf hornresp manual online. Sorry, lost the link.
I started using it because it's free and am working on, well, not a horn. I'm trying a BVR sub. GM has chimed in on my thread too, found here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/211847-bvr-modeling.html
To the previous post; I find no crime in messing around with software as part of the learning process. That's why I go to forums like this. Of course we need to learn the fundamentals, but we all learn in different ways and one persons fundamentals may be advanced for another.
I look forward to seeing your progress as part of my own education and hope to see a build at some point too!
Best of luck.
thanks for the various links. i learn by doing. that's why this thread has a few different designs that i made up and then virtually built. i have very little empathy for walls of text and equations, i like a visual representation of what i'm doing so i can reference changes quicker.
for the record, i take no offence in GM's methods, he's been providing a constant stream of real information and explanation. i take offence at people essentially telling me to use the search function. if you don't know the actual correct search string of what you need (like 99% of beginners), the search function is completely useless.
i have got a copy of hornresp, worked a charm for designing a subwoofer. i find for speakers that i connect with the MJK sheets better. i've read a few threads for designing BVR's but none of them really contain a step by step guide of what you have to do. i've developed my own process but it seems hit and miss. Planet10 referenced scottmoose having a lot of manual aids to help with his BVR designs, so it doesn't seem as well documented as all the MJK worksheets which is giving me a problem understanding the logic behind the design steps.
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It wasn't meant as smart ***.
Did you ever search for "loudspeaker horn theory" or any such?
I found the answer by searching. I didn't know the answer.
I'm sure people are even more likely to be helpful now. Good luck.
Did you ever search for "loudspeaker horn theory" or any such?
I found the answer by searching. I didn't know the answer.
I'm sure people are even more likely to be helpful now. Good luck.
is this getting any better?
the MJK sim is completely unstuffed just now and both sim'd with 2pie. i've used a front firing vent at the very top of the enclosure. from what i've read from the BiB enclosures, most those ripples should be eaten up by venting into the top of the room?
can anyone critique on this, its for the audio nirvana super 8 neo.
the MJK sim is completely unstuffed just now and both sim'd with 2pie. i've used a front firing vent at the very top of the enclosure. from what i've read from the BiB enclosures, most those ripples should be eaten up by venting into the top of the room?
can anyone critique on this, its for the audio nirvana super 8 neo.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and this is 0.5pie, which would be it pressed against a wall/corner with the flat edge of the vent against the wall?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
i found a model of the sachiko floating around on these forums. they look kinda similar but i still don't know what good/ideal looks like! any comments at all?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
what about this? its flatter and doesn't go as low but is that a good thing or not?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
any of these worth building? someone has to have an opinion on this.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
so the above designs didn't work so well in real life, as predicted by those in the know. especially once the drivers true T/S stats were used.
sadly no pictures as the old laptop died with everything on, measurements etc etc
huge peak in bass at 40hz, then a 10-15db drop to 100hz then back up in the 90's then a series of drops and holes in the response. too much high frequency was coming through and it was muddling the sound with the delay, regardless of stuffing etc etc.
so i've given up (for now) on the top firing BiB style horn and trying a manifold style horn in the hope its more forgiving.
my question is, do any of these plots look worth building?
cabinet volume is identical in both cases, just slightly different flare in each.
sadly no pictures as the old laptop died with everything on, measurements etc etc
huge peak in bass at 40hz, then a 10-15db drop to 100hz then back up in the 90's then a series of drops and holes in the response. too much high frequency was coming through and it was muddling the sound with the delay, regardless of stuffing etc etc.
so i've given up (for now) on the top firing BiB style horn and trying a manifold style horn in the hope its more forgiving.
my question is, do any of these plots look worth building?
cabinet volume is identical in both cases, just slightly different flare in each.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
yes/no anyone?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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