The Seaton Submersive is high end and it's pretty expensive. Should qualify for Fakeout's "real hi-fi".
Another option to get really low bass without gobs of amp watts or high end drivers might be tapped horn /BIB type subs? They are BIG though and limited bandwidth is another challenge.
Another option to get really low bass without gobs of amp watts or high end drivers might be tapped horn /BIB type subs? They are BIG though and limited bandwidth is another challenge.
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Well, assuming I wanted <$50 subs (I mean stereo as someone here suggested). I'm not going to start out and experiment with "real Hi-Fi". lol
Depends on your priorities. If you don't need <30hz content, just high pass. If you don't need it loud, go sealed and keep it down. If movies matter a lot, and you want to feel like you're in the back seat of a car hitting a semi - well, tough luck. Ain't gonna happen without more cash and going FAST plus dedicated subwooferS. Yes, use more than one. That's part of my SPL and LFE limitation.
I couldnt agree more. I do not have any experience with wavecore drivers, but the times I have looked at possible mid-woofers (of the Seas, Vifa ilk which is how I view them in a roundabout way, notably the Nomex coned variants), I have to say Id probably buy the Wavecore drivers and leave the Seas/Vifa 'equivalents' on the shelf.
My opinion maybe flawed... I dont know. From what data is published commonly I like something about the Wavecore drivers
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grumpy old man rant alert:
Whether for music or "Home Cinema" forget about LF below mid 40s unless you've got the wherewithal (space and budget) to dedicate to an acoustically engineered space. Just live with the compromises your room and budget dictate - and for me extreme bottom end and +100dB SPL are both very easy to live without.
BTDT
2) Based on what's alluded to but not elaborated on above, it's been my experience that the smaller the FR driver you employ (or mid/bass in multiways), the smaller a (mid)woofer you're likely to find blend seamlessly with same.
3) Further, multiples of smaller woofers (as opposed to a "killer / SOTA/ "statement" SUB) are far more likely to provide even distribution of LF throughout the space. While maybe not a "game of inches", I've definitely lived with systems in which listening positions less than a meter apart hear substantial differences in the bottom 2-3 octaves.
There are lots of very decent performing mid-bass/woofers in the 6-8" range more than capable of the job.
4) Self-powered ( i.e. "plate amps") woofer/subs might seem convenient, but in fact, you need to run both power and signal to them, and more significantly, I think inside this enclosure, even if in a sealed compartment, this is the worst place to put any amp. Just ask the warranty service department of any hi-fi -A/V shop.
Whether for music or "Home Cinema" forget about LF below mid 40s unless you've got the wherewithal (space and budget) to dedicate to an acoustically engineered space. Just live with the compromises your room and budget dictate - and for me extreme bottom end and +100dB SPL are both very easy to live without.
BTDT
2) Based on what's alluded to but not elaborated on above, it's been my experience that the smaller the FR driver you employ (or mid/bass in multiways), the smaller a (mid)woofer you're likely to find blend seamlessly with same.
3) Further, multiples of smaller woofers (as opposed to a "killer / SOTA/ "statement" SUB) are far more likely to provide even distribution of LF throughout the space. While maybe not a "game of inches", I've definitely lived with systems in which listening positions less than a meter apart hear substantial differences in the bottom 2-3 octaves.
There are lots of very decent performing mid-bass/woofers in the 6-8" range more than capable of the job.
4) Self-powered ( i.e. "plate amps") woofer/subs might seem convenient, but in fact, you need to run both power and signal to them, and more significantly, I think inside this enclosure, even if in a sealed compartment, this is the worst place to put any amp. Just ask the warranty service department of any hi-fi -A/V shop.
Oh c'mon Chris, you need an IB of 8 of these SSD18s or your system just doesn't cut it.
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficarau...Speakers/0040_SSD/product_overview.shopscript
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficarau...Speakers/0040_SSD/product_overview.shopscript
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/158959-small-bookshellf-china-sets.html#post2054186
Just thought I'd throw that in there as info on Wavecor.
Just thought I'd throw that in there as info on Wavecor.
If you want to use FF85wk in a really good FAST, and be able to do movies to full spec, you end up with FF85wk ~350 up (or higher -- XO at baffle step), a transition woofer(s) good from ~50-1k (XO at baffle step), and a subwoofer below that (i am going to be trying 4 x SDX10 -- but i don't need full Dolby levels for my needs). Tri-amped. With fairly steep XOs.
If it was mostly movies, i'd likely use something larger as mid-tweeter like EL70eN, to give more cone area (and less sensitivity to the HT receiver in front of it (whether or not you are using the HTRs power amps).
dave
Fakeout, I'm gonna be cutting wood this weekend for a FAST using the FE83 and silver flute 6.5" woofers in parallel. The end user is going to use it as a center channel with a dedicated sub. I'll let you know how it goes. It'll cross fairly high for a FAST at probably 500hz. And it'll not be a first order crossover likely. Unless it pans out that way.
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Well, at least I found another FAST thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/158278-suitable-f-s-t-project.html
This site is keeping me busy.
This site is keeping me busy.
Well, at least I found another FAST thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/158278-suitable-f-s-t-project.html
This site is keeping me busy.
and of course that thread resurrects in part a type of "polite conversation" for which this forum is renowned - "whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?" - IOW, exactly what do "words / definitions" mean (for a refresher course, visit WJ Clinton's explanation of what the meaning of "is" is)
all kidding aside, a successful audio playback system can't be designed in a context-less vacuum - even a few minimal data points (in no particular order) such as venue (room size/acoustic properties/ number in audience); program content; source & amplification electronics, can be very valuable in pruning the decision tree
That's true. But one of the reasons I ask questions in a sort of vague manner is because I was considering the idea of also building a pair of speakers for my mother. I don't know if she'd put them in her "office" or her somewhat large living room, which by the way is kind of "open" to the kitchen area and den or whatever you call it. It's even exposed to the upstairs area.
It kind of makes for a weird dilemma. I thought about a pair of Pensils with Mark Audio Alpairs 7.3 but keep wondering if I'd be shortchanging her and her husband if they wanted to watch movies with them. On top of that, if I'd be like, well, you need two amps and...blah, blah, I don't even know if she'd use them.
(On top of that, the living room has two large glass doors that let in a lot of sun. So, I'd need to find out how to put magnets inside the baffle to put on grilles.)
Oh well, I'll be learning for a while I guess...
It kind of makes for a weird dilemma. I thought about a pair of Pensils with Mark Audio Alpairs 7.3 but keep wondering if I'd be shortchanging her and her husband if they wanted to watch movies with them. On top of that, if I'd be like, well, you need two amps and...blah, blah, I don't even know if she'd use them.
(On top of that, the living room has two large glass doors that let in a lot of sun. So, I'd need to find out how to put magnets inside the baffle to put on grilles.)
Oh well, I'll be learning for a while I guess...
Well countersinking magnets on baffles for the grilles is a breeze with brad-point / forstner bit and depth stop on a drill press. I use 1/4" MDF for frames and pre-cut over-sized MDF frames as templates, tape to baffle panels, set depth stop for about 1mm deeper than the magnet height drill both together before if your assemble cabinets, and trim to finished enclosure size. Small enough enclosures to fit on the drill press table could even be assembled first.
Unless you're using a CNC, it'll take longer to do a tidy job of cutting the frames and wrapping the grilles than to install the magnets. With a bit of practice ( probably over 50 pairs by now), I've got a system that takes about a total of an hour per pair for most enclosure sizes.
You could just as easily use metal grilles, and magnets on the driver mounting screws, but neither will really fully screen the driver from UV if that's your concern, and I'd be more concerned about long term effect on paper than metal cones. But then, as it so happens, in over 40yrs none of my speakers have been situated such that they received more than a couple of hours of direct sun exposure per day, so it could be an issue regardless of material type.
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