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Old 2nd April 2012, 09:29 PM   #11
exeric is offline exeric  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
Madisound are out of stock - have you tried CSS?
Zman, thanks for the suggestion. I looked but it says they are out of stock on their site. I'm starting to realize their freq response profile isn't the best for my tentative plans. The best freq profile I've seen for a tilted baffle seems to be the 8" Tang Bands. Plus they have sufficient sensitivity for my needs. I wish they had more excusion so they could push more air like the Alpairs but it seems you can't get everything when you have very specific needs. I'll probably end up getting them as they seem to come the closest.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 09:48 PM   #12
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The Alpair 12 mk2 looked real good but they don't seem to be available anymore.
I have 2. The are odd-eyed (1 Silver, 1 Copper), fully treated and will go cheap.

dave
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Old 2nd April 2012, 09:49 PM   #13
zman01 is online now zman01  Bangladesh
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Another slightly different way to go about this can be Alp 7.3 - their mid and tops are superb and bass is acceptable if volumes are not high. In order to get more headroom and efficiency, and reduce excursion you can go for a 2 driver/cabinet top firing design - something like this:

Twin Chr-ken70.3 Castle teaser

It's a P10 design.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:35 PM   #14
exeric is offline exeric  United States
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
I have 2. The are odd-eyed (1 Silver, 1 Copper), fully treated and will go cheap.

dave
Hi David, you have mail at your planet10 email address.

Eric
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Old 3rd April 2012, 06:23 PM   #15
exeric is offline exeric  United States
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Hi Zman and Dyna,
I hope I didn't come off as dismissive of your suggestion of adding more complexity to get better sound. Actually I understand how difficult it is to tailor a driver's frequency response to get good sound in an unorthodox application, like what I'm intending. There is no way to know, for instance, what tilt of the baffle will give the smoothest and most natural response for any given driver. It may be that even with a full ranger with the most aggressive top end that it only requires a 15 degree baffle tilt up. That would hardly counteract the high frequency beaming on most drivers.

So yes, i'm planning to have DSP on it but it will be incorporated into room correction software. That way I can be assured that I can tilt the drivers enough, say 35 to 40 degrees, that it will really make a difference in reduction in off lateral axis beaming. I also already have a subwoofer and will probably get another and they will be incorporated in the room correction software. I don't see any necessary reason to include woofers close to the main speakers since most low frequencies below about 80hz are omnidirectional. Doing it that way also agrees with my preference for keeping speakers against the wall and as inconspicuous as is humanly possible. (not always possible anyway)

But doing all this still requires that you get full rangers with the smoothest high freq tilt to begin with. That let's out most of the Alpairs that I understand are designed with a sonic signature for a natural sounding listening experience but not necessarily a smooth measured response. So I ordered a pair of Tang Band w8-1808.

Everyone has their own ideas how to do things and there certainly is no single right way to do things, just inclinations that we already have that alters how we arrive at our final destination. I'm just hoping my destination isn't audio hell as this is just an experiment. But I'm a risk taker so I'm not too worried (yet)!

Last edited by exeric; 3rd April 2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 06:51 PM   #16
zman01 is online now zman01  Bangladesh
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Originally Posted by exeric View Post
Hi Zman and Dyna,
I hope I didn't come off as dismissive of your suggestion of adding more complexity to get better sound.
Not at all. DIY is all about trying out new things and following ideas/convictions - and that leads to your last paragraph:

Quote:
Originally Posted by exeric View Post
Everyone has their own ideas how to do things and there certainly is no single right way to do things, just inclinations that we already have that alters how we arrive at our final destination. I'm just hoping my destination isn't audio hell as this is just an experiment. But I'm a risk taker so I'm not too worried (yet)!
Very true, and it will be good to learn from your experiences. Keep us posted on your progress and results.

Have fun!
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Old 3rd April 2012, 08:55 PM   #17
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So I ordered a pair of Tang Band w8-1808.
With the phase plugs (and voice coil open to the air) pointing them upward is an invitation for early failure.

I was going to suggest Visaton B200, which if not modified with a phase plug, have a nice consisitent on axis rising from low to high.

dave
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Old 3rd April 2012, 09:22 PM   #18
exeric is offline exeric  United States
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With the phase plugs (and voice coil open to the air) pointing them upward is an invitation for early failure.

I was going to suggest Visaton B200, which if not modified with a phase plug, have a nice consisitent on axis rising from low to high.

dave
I just looked at the chart for it and the trend is right but is too extreme below 500hz where there isn't much beaming in a speaker that you would need to compensate for to start with. I'd just end up boosting the hell out of the lower midrange. Also, it looks like on the high end it's already down 10db at 15khz and 20 db down at 20khz. That's just guestimating a moving average from the response peak at 8khz. So I'll probably just stick with what I ordered. If it looks like it will be a problem I'll try to find an acoustically transparent cloth to cover it. Nothing is perfect in life and the interesting part is how one negotiates that fact.
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Old 7th April 2012, 08:38 PM   #19
exeric is offline exeric  United States
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Update: I decided that, at least initially, it would make more sense to create a rectangular sealed box mule speaker with the W8-1808. That way I can see what baffle angle is even possible without creating an overly ambient soundstage or running into limits with that would make the speaker too low efficiency. I can just tilt the speaker at different angles and see how the speaker responds with different digital room correction software settings. Even DRC has limits to how wide a sweet spot you can create in your room. I think a lot of that, but not all of it, has to do with how beamy your high speaker high freqs are to begin with.

Unfortunately, I have a lot on my plate at the moment as I'm doing a whole house renovation. So as not to disappoint anyone who is interested in my results, I should say up front that it might make more sense to try some experimenting on your own by tilting your own speaker up, rather than wait for my results. It's easy enough to do. Most likely you will hear some opening up in the narrowness of the sweet spot by doing that. However it os also possible, and probable, that you might hear added deficiencies in other areas, such as lower volume for the same watts and duller high frequency sound. That is where there might be a symbiotic effect with the normal peaking response of many full rangers. If you are already interested in room correction software that would be the natural correction for the problems you add by tilting them up. Remove the baffle step correction and let the room correction software correct make the changes for any given baffle tilt. Experiment to your heart's content. Fun, Fun, Fun!
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