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Old 18th March 2012, 11:11 PM   #1
joe58 is offline joe58  United Kingdom
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Default What to improve my overall system?

Basic question really how can I improve my overall system? I'm not on a big budget , but just wondering what is the next steps or what can be done. The kit has to be transported to university and back, but hopefully next year my room will be fairly large and can play abit more.

My main speakers are Fe103e's. They are in 20cm ikea bowls and would like these to stay as they if possible due to the money contained in the bowls and time spent on them. Over summer these will be improved by fibre glassing over the whole sphere and shaping them better with built in grilles etc. Plus properly chamfering the driver hole and other small improvements to build quality.

I have a Wharfedale SW150 subwoofer, which I don't think quite reaches the bottom end of the Fostex's.

The amp is a Tripath TA2024c based amplifier.

I'm just getting ideas really. I'm going to build a mic when I get chance to test the stuff and see what's what.

Would some 6" woofers bridging the gap work well(plus would give me something to build and make the overall speakers bigger )

Thanks
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Old 19th March 2012, 06:05 PM   #2
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe58 View Post
Basic question really how can I improve my overall system? I'm not on a big budget , but just wondering what is the next steps or what can be done. The kit has to be transported to university and back, but hopefully next year my room will be fairly large and can play abit more.

My main speakers are Fe103e's. They are in 20cm ikea bowls and would like these to stay as they if possible due to the money contained in the bowls and time spent on them. Over summer these will be improved by fibre glassing over the whole sphere and shaping them better with built in grilles etc. Plus properly chamfering the driver hole and other small improvements to build quality.

I have a Wharfedale SW150 subwoofer, which I don't think quite reaches the bottom end of the Fostex's.

The amp is a Tripath TA2024c based amplifier.

I'm just getting ideas really. I'm going to build a mic when I get chance to test the stuff and see what's what.

Would some 6" woofers bridging the gap work well(plus would give me something to build and make the overall speakers bigger )

Thanks

let's assume the 103 run out of balls ( that's a technical term) in the 100-120 HZ range - I'd follow your inclination towards 6/7" woofer per side - going active with XO as high as 250-300 could go a long way to allowing the little guys to breathe easier - just adding woofers without HP to the 103s wouldn't likely yield the same improvements in total SPL / power handling and substantial improvement in midrange & up clarity

there are plenty of suitable candidate drivers by SilverFlute, Peerless, etc (the Mark Audio Woofer 6 / CSS EL166 is a sleeper, but may be getting harder to source)


while home theater builders have found that most suitable location for woofers/subs in not necessarily coincident with the mains, there are any number of enclosure configurations that would be adjusted to suit as stands for your Ikea bowls.
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Old 19th March 2012, 07:37 PM   #3
joe58 is offline joe58  United Kingdom
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Thanks

I've done some more reading into your suggestions and come up with this diagram. I've always backed out and kept fullrange due to lack of knowledge and I hate to ask questions all the time. But would something like this work? Apologies for the sketch diagram. Upper is the Fostex and lower the woofer drivers.

Also as the amplifiers would be both integrated I would mounted them on top of each other and mod the volume buttons to turn with each other like a stem trains wheels...

Yeah I was thinking something along thhe lines of the layout of the Focal 4260.
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Old 19th March 2012, 08:18 PM   #4
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Hi , better it would be to do as Chris said , to use active splitting before the amps .
The thing you sketched is very nice , though it is not very 'portable' .
Why don't you use the woofer in a Double chamber reflex ? It is inside the box ( passband configuration ) so it isn't accessible , output is from the ports .
So ...new situation a bunch of ICs and a double reflex . Easy to say ....!!?!
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Old 19th March 2012, 08:21 PM   #5
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If you did do a passive cross over, you wouldn't need two amps like that. Unless those are mono. And one of those passive components needs to be an inductor or you're just high passing both drivers.
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Old 19th March 2012, 08:31 PM   #6
joe58 is offline joe58  United Kingdom
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I have researched dual chamber reflex's before and would be quite an opportunity to actually build one. The reason I didn't quite sketch what Chris said is because I don't fully understand Active crossovers. So I sketched something I thought was as close as possible.

Tux: The reason I kept two amps( both stereo) is because I thought it would sound overall better as the current amp I have is only 2x10w (8ohm). Also the reason there is two caps is that is the woofers are both powered by the lower amp and surely both woofers need a cap for each channels high pass.

Edit: I think I got it slightly wrong in the sketch and put a high pass filter in the woofers side. This should surely be a low pass as we only only want the woofers to play below 300hz.

Last edited by joe58; 19th March 2012 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 19th March 2012, 08:59 PM   #7
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I d0n't know how a class T amp works, well , I have a little idea , but since it has a fixed impedance at its input , you can do the same as any amp , to change the value of the input capacitor . For example , if it has a 1 uF input coupling cap and 47 KΩ impedance ( balls out ... rool off at about 15 Hz ) , you can lower it to 1 /10 =0.1 uF to have the roll off freq point set higher ( about 80-100 Hz ) . You'll save money instead of buying large NP caps ( well , 0.5 $ ) . This may be a starting point . Then , bandpass configuration in DCR is already a natural lowpass filter . Doing all the filtering at line level would , as Chris said , increase power and efficiency . That's why very often subwoofers are directly connected to the amp and preceded by active circuitry because a bunch of ICs and small power resistors and caps are less 'intrusive' than big inductors .
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Old 19th March 2012, 09:37 PM   #8
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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active XO really don't need to be any more complicated than passive, indeed perhaps less so, and particularly with the advent digital solutions (mini-dsp etc), have become very flexible

at the extreme frugal end of the spectrum, PLLXO can be achieved with very few components (possibly costing less than the hobby box, RCA jacks, and interconnect cables required )

TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover

and one channel of amplification per driver is all you really need - (depending on drivers' relative sensitivities they needn't both be of same power levels - usually the bass driver will need to be several times that of the "mid/tweeter" ) and passive filter components are not required at speaker level

then of course there are products like the Behringer, mini-dsp, and many other stand-one active XO and computer based solutions


and while it might be antithetical to evangelical Full Rangers, you really will garner most benefit over the Fostex's operating range by HP filtering them
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Last edited by chrisb; 19th March 2012 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 24th March 2012, 06:00 PM   #9
joe58 is offline joe58  United Kingdom
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Apologies for the lateness, been a bit busy.

Chris is it possible to do a quick sketch of how your system would look as I'm trying to get my head around it. I am trying to do this as frugally as possible.

Going back to just one amp in total and running a 1st order butterworth between the Fostex and woofer. Would this offer any real improvement or is the crossover type to good enough.

I'm also thinking of these drivers link or is it better to go for some better?
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