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Old 17th March 2012, 04:39 AM   #1
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Default Manger MSW & Moongel

I am using Manger drivers for more than a decade and still find their basic sound quality fascinating. But they are not perfect: dispersion of HF, notch in frequency response at around 800 and 1600 Hz and high distortions at that frequency range. Manger developed new speakers but there is no upgrade of the driver itself for more than 2 decades.
I found Moongel .: RTOM Corporation :. which is used for damping drums and thought to try it on the MSW as they are quite cheap. No effect when used in the periphery of the outside or in the center of inside. But there was some positive effect when the moon gel was applied at the center of the MSW on the frequency response and much more significantly on the distortions levels of the midrange. (filtered at 400HZ)
yellow: MSW alone
dark violet: MSW + Moongel at center
Attached Images
File Type: png moogel freq.png (82.0 KB, 271 views)
File Type: png moongel distortion.png (94.4 KB, 262 views)

Last edited by Monteverdi; 17th March 2012 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 17th March 2012, 04:46 AM   #2
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One thing I forgot to mention: they simply stick to the surface but can easily be removed (no glue required). 1/2 pad had close to the same effect as a hole one. And I would not write about it if it would not sound better - I guess 6% distortion is noticeable.
I expect that other bending wave designs could also profit from this sticky gel.
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Old 17th March 2012, 08:52 AM   #3
Draki is offline Draki  Macedonia
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Very interesting.
Are there no side-effects due to increased mass?
Subjective differences between moongelled vs plain?
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Old 17th March 2012, 11:01 AM   #4
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I worked out a similar solution. It is a combination of mass and spring what is necessary.
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Old 17th March 2012, 06:01 PM   #5
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The MSW is suspended/fixed in the center with a semisoft material on the inside of the driver (they call that structure Hochton-Reflexionsdämpfer). So adding a mass to the center should have less effect than adding it to the periphery. But I found no effect of the gel pads except when applied to the center. I did not investigate the effects on low frequency as I used a digital filter at 400 Hz. I did not investigate the lateral behavior yet.
It would look better if the Moongel could be attached to the inside between the membrane and the damper but that means to deconstruct the MSW.
Sound wise there is a better tonality of instruments and voices - more natural. Also there is better defined depth of the sound stage.
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Old 17th March 2012, 06:11 PM   #6
hm is offline hm  Europe
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Hello,
did the step response change?

i made a construction which fill the 1,5 kHz dib,
but you need two MSW each, the POSAUNE take a view,
never built but theoretical a best fullrange MSW solution, max. 96 dB
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http://www.hm-moreart.de

Last edited by hm; 17th March 2012 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 17th March 2012, 06:52 PM   #7
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There is a small change in the step response
yellow: MSW alone
dark violet: MSW + Moongel at center
Attached Images
File Type: png step moongel.png (55.4 KB, 196 views)
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Old 17th March 2012, 07:58 PM   #8
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The 1,6kHz hole is an acoustic destructive interference that comes because the signal is put in over a high diameter voicecoil. That hole does not create distortion as such.
Here are my results before and after modification. The distortion is THD at quite high volume. It is made up mostly of second. A measure of chaotic behaviour that can also be interpreted as a DC offset.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MSW FRD gelb roh, rot modifiziert.pdf (20.4 KB, 102 views)
File Type: pdf MSW THD grün roh, rot modifiziert.pdf (20.5 KB, 77 views)
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Old 17th March 2012, 08:01 PM   #9
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The driver is 20 years old in an inherited Audio Physic Medea designed by me. It looks like brand new.
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Old 17th March 2012, 08:36 PM   #10
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with moongel app the step response goes worse ...

"acoustic destructive interference"

no way , where should the delay come from? it must be a helmholtz-type resonance that is coupled to the diaphragm and steals energy ...

btw in nearly every second posts of yours I´m detecting false conclusions , you electronic guys should better stay at your main pro?fashion


greetz - the almighty blechkasten
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