A little update
I've changed nothing on the speaker at all. All I did was attach the Nelson Pass' Amp Camp Amp to CD player with a variable output....
WOW - Depth of sound, resolution etc. Heard things on frequently played discs I don't remember hearing before. Bass was much bigger - As I decreased the volume the bass got quieter but didn't shrink like my AB amp and T2 hifimediy amps.
must be the extra current
I've changed nothing on the speaker at all. All I did was attach the Nelson Pass' Amp Camp Amp to CD player with a variable output....
WOW - Depth of sound, resolution etc. Heard things on frequently played discs I don't remember hearing before. Bass was much bigger - As I decreased the volume the bass got quieter but didn't shrink like my AB amp and T2 hifimediy amps.
must be the extra current
It was the same style of sound that I recall having with my Jungson HA88D (its the One Troels uses JungSonJA88D-09) big bold & kind of glassy.
I bet they wouldn't say it after they listen to a SE class A design from Mr Pass! It made a pair of Minimus 7's sound unliveable for their size
The Emken? Just WOW
And people say all amps sound the same
dave
I bet they wouldn't say it after they listen to a SE class A design from Mr Pass! It made a pair of Minimus 7's sound unliveable for their size
The Emken? Just WOWBuilt in powered speaker... two mono block ACA 1.0's are no standard on all Emkens?
Yea..
JOn P
Well,
Its been a few whiles since I posted anything here........
JKRO sorted me out with phase plugs and I liked the sounds that issued forth right from the get go, first track played was Smoooooth. He also sent me some of his felt, so ensued hauling out the Lta's, removal of the Wilton and cutting pads to sit inside the basket legs......this tamed some more of the hf reflections.
That Saturday I didn't surf, I trolled through all my favourite tunes. Early evening, Clea came round in a rare moment of silence, noticed the the plugs when I sat her down with a cuppa and said "They look so much better, finished off almost."
She took control of music selection and after an hour she said "I could live with a pair of those."
A week or so goes by....... One evening I'm doing a Sim Race league event and the sound keeps dropping out on one channel of my venerable Cyrus, further investigation shows that its in desperate need of service, so I wheel in the 'unknown quantity' Kenwood amp, which displays a slight 'cuppienes' to some vocals, nothing really offensive though.
Parents return from Turkey, I phone to say 'I'm on my way' and cycles out to pick up my tweeters....... Now for a shocker, I don't like the sound of EmKens with the Fostex tweets. I fiddled with various value caps, played with them mounted in the front baffle and with them on top of the cabinet, some thing not quite right to My ears.
I also discovered that my sound card has a slight lack of drive compared to either of my CD players..... Parents have finally gone 'computerised' digital, releasing my CD63KIS back into my sticky mitts.
With the Green Zone venting arrangement and a cdp with some grunt there is no lack of bass depth, None, my recorded for me club-sets (vinyl to flac / cd) really thunder in the lower registers. They 'grip' so well that they can vibrate my book case, 2 shelves of hardbacks and 2 shelves that hold up (just) about 90 lbs worth of iron in the form of my woodworking plane collection.
I've tried the longest vents and asymmetric, in my room, neither sound right - cant describe in words, same goes for the tweeters.
A week ago (ish) the EmKens had a try out as PA speakers in the Village Hall - a space of about 70 x 40ft with 20ft high ceiling. Backs to the stage riser, fed by my cheapo Technics cdp / Kenwood amp they played music really really loud for the Ladies Work Out class, after they made their corpuscles race, there was chance to go wild and turn the wick up all the way
I guess this amp has (maybe) 40w output, but even a 'thrashing' with so little power helped smooth things a little more. Bass was not up to scratch in such a large space, as one would expect - I wouldn't mind building some form of bass reinforcement cabinets, then I would be able to loan or hire them out for summer parties........
Conclusion: Build cabinet, perform dust cap ectomy on Lta, install in cabinet, hook up to an amp with some goolies and give 'em a damn good thrashing, the more thrashing the better imho...... just remember to wear ear-defenders!!!
THE ONLY thing I would change about my build would be to make these out of really top notch plywood, something I'm going to do now I:
A) Know that the design works and I like the sound.
B) The gf would like a pair (means finishing these ones off, something Matt the carpenter has been chewing my ear about), She will have to buy her own pair of 12Lta's though!
Nowt wrong with this cabinet / drive unit combo as I've built them. I do suspect that the designer has 'spoilt' ears from his endeavours with other 'wide range' drive unit/ cabinet combos.
Good news about the sounds now produced with ACA in the system JKRO, I've been waiting to hear your report....... I shall have to drop a few hints re Xmass pressies. Having found out that my sound cards don't come up to scratch, I'm looking at DAC options, this is another thing to add to the list of 'needs'.
Currently listening to Agnus Dei sung by All Angels from their self titled first album, STUNNING!
I also treated myself and BOUGHT a CD (shock horror!) - Claire Jones - The Girl With The Golden Harp (Decca Records/Classic FM), she was untill fair recently THE official harpist to The House of HRH Prince Charles and played at the last royal wedding, well worth splashing out for.
Its been a few whiles since I posted anything here........
JKRO sorted me out with phase plugs and I liked the sounds that issued forth right from the get go, first track played was Smoooooth. He also sent me some of his felt, so ensued hauling out the Lta's, removal of the Wilton and cutting pads to sit inside the basket legs......this tamed some more of the hf reflections.
That Saturday I didn't surf, I trolled through all my favourite tunes. Early evening, Clea came round in a rare moment of silence, noticed the the plugs when I sat her down with a cuppa and said "They look so much better, finished off almost."
She took control of music selection and after an hour she said "I could live with a pair of those."
A week or so goes by....... One evening I'm doing a Sim Race league event and the sound keeps dropping out on one channel of my venerable Cyrus, further investigation shows that its in desperate need of service, so I wheel in the 'unknown quantity' Kenwood amp, which displays a slight 'cuppienes' to some vocals, nothing really offensive though.
Parents return from Turkey, I phone to say 'I'm on my way' and cycles out to pick up my tweeters....... Now for a shocker, I don't like the sound of EmKens with the Fostex tweets. I fiddled with various value caps, played with them mounted in the front baffle and with them on top of the cabinet, some thing not quite right to My ears.
I also discovered that my sound card has a slight lack of drive compared to either of my CD players..... Parents have finally gone 'computerised' digital, releasing my CD63KIS back into my sticky mitts.
With the Green Zone venting arrangement and a cdp with some grunt there is no lack of bass depth, None, my recorded for me club-sets (vinyl to flac / cd) really thunder in the lower registers. They 'grip' so well that they can vibrate my book case, 2 shelves of hardbacks and 2 shelves that hold up (just) about 90 lbs worth of iron in the form of my woodworking plane collection.
I've tried the longest vents and asymmetric, in my room, neither sound right - cant describe in words, same goes for the tweeters.
A week ago (ish) the EmKens had a try out as PA speakers in the Village Hall - a space of about 70 x 40ft with 20ft high ceiling. Backs to the stage riser, fed by my cheapo Technics cdp / Kenwood amp they played music really really loud for the Ladies Work Out class, after they made their corpuscles race, there was chance to go wild and turn the wick up all the way
I guess this amp has (maybe) 40w output, but even a 'thrashing' with so little power helped smooth things a little more. Bass was not up to scratch in such a large space, as one would expect - I wouldn't mind building some form of bass reinforcement cabinets, then I would be able to loan or hire them out for summer parties........
Conclusion: Build cabinet, perform dust cap ectomy on Lta, install in cabinet, hook up to an amp with some goolies and give 'em a damn good thrashing, the more thrashing the better imho...... just remember to wear ear-defenders!!!
THE ONLY thing I would change about my build would be to make these out of really top notch plywood, something I'm going to do now I:
A) Know that the design works and I like the sound.
B) The gf would like a pair (means finishing these ones off, something Matt the carpenter has been chewing my ear about), She will have to buy her own pair of 12Lta's though!
Nowt wrong with this cabinet / drive unit combo as I've built them. I do suspect that the designer has 'spoilt' ears from his endeavours with other 'wide range' drive unit/ cabinet combos.
Good news about the sounds now produced with ACA in the system JKRO, I've been waiting to hear your report....... I shall have to drop a few hints re Xmass pressies. Having found out that my sound cards don't come up to scratch, I'm looking at DAC options, this is another thing to add to the list of 'needs'.
Currently listening to Agnus Dei sung by All Angels from their self titled first album, STUNNING!
I also treated myself and BOUGHT a CD (shock horror!) - Claire Jones - The Girl With The Golden Harp (Decca Records/Classic FM), she was untill fair recently THE official harpist to The House of HRH Prince Charles and played at the last royal wedding, well worth splashing out for.
well, I think it's the amps that are claimed to make less difference than the source, magic interconnects and cabling and end of chain transducers
system , synergy - some folks just don't get it
My introduction to hifi was sitting down and listening to parts of DSOTM twice, then the owner of the hifi changed the interconnects between the passive pre and power amps and made me listen twice more. To prove his point, He then switched the interconnects back and put a track on that was just a girl n guitar in a church hall, listened to it once and then he did the switch - second time there was the sound of a glass bottle being knocked over and breaking, sounded like it was coming from 30 - 40ft behind the speakers.
First pair of inters were 'Rather expensive considering they's just bits of wire', the second pair were home made and cost about £10. My mind was blown away.
Same guy also helped my build my first 'hifi' amps and pair of speakers.
First pair of inters were 'Rather expensive considering they's just bits of wire', the second pair were home made and cost about £10. My mind was blown away.
Same guy also helped my build my first 'hifi' amps and pair of speakers.
Hey Sippy, glad the felt and phase plugs met with approval.
What fostex tweets and crossover are you using? the FT17H? If you have been listening without highs they can sound foreign as the brain becomes comfortable after a time. I use a simple in line filter of 2 caps combined to make a value of 2.5uF for a gentle 1st order slope (6db) at just under 8khz
What fostex tweets and crossover are you using? the FT17H? If you have been listening without highs they can sound foreign as the brain becomes comfortable after a time. I use a simple in line filter of 2 caps combined to make a value of 2.5uF for a gentle 1st order slope (6db) at just under 8khz
Yup, FT17H with 1.5uF to 3.9uF, fine regards relative output, just not sounding 'right'.
I even tried differing wire configurations - copper both solid and stranded, solid silver and silver plated copper, twisted and un-twisted. Interestingly, the few multi driver speakers I've heard since sounded good.... well, as good as these things can sound considering differing systems, just some what less immediate then the EmKen.
Our ears are cut from a different bolt of cloth is all I can say.
I am very interested to hear the effects of a low damping factor and current drive amp can do for these. ACA is highly tempting as its a 'One Stop' package - then there is the Zen Amp articles, a chance to learn - BUT then again, I know where there's one of those lil FatMan amps going for a very small song.......
I even tried differing wire configurations - copper both solid and stranded, solid silver and silver plated copper, twisted and un-twisted. Interestingly, the few multi driver speakers I've heard since sounded good.... well, as good as these things can sound considering differing systems, just some what less immediate then the EmKen.
Our ears are cut from a different bolt of cloth is all I can say.
I am very interested to hear the effects of a low damping factor and current drive amp can do for these. ACA is highly tempting as its a 'One Stop' package - then there is the Zen Amp articles, a chance to learn - BUT then again, I know where there's one of those lil FatMan amps going for a very small song.......
for cables I'm running cat5 24awg solid core with a solid metal shield and central earth wire. I strip the ends and twist all the solid colours together and all the striped together so the twisted pairs remain inside the sheath
Whats your cabling?
Also I've heard that later model ft17h have a hf drop off very different to what the spec sheet states
I run my ft17h's on the outside of centre to widen the presentation
Whats your cabling?
Also I've heard that later model ft17h have a hf drop off very different to what the spec sheet states
I run my ft17h's on the outside of centre to widen the presentation
Ready for the list?
Solid Cores:
1mm twin and earth with earth core removed
1.5mm as above
1mm and 1.5mm twin and earth, insulated cores twisted anything from 1 twist in 1ft to 1 twist in 3 inches.
1mm T & E, 2 + and 2- cores in a '4 way plait'..... will post pic
0.7mm solid hook-up wire, 1 twist in 6 inches
0.6mm solid silver insulated with teflon tube, 1 twist in 8 inches
Stranded Cores:
13 amp twin conductor flex from a dead vacuum cleaner
14ga Monster cable
10g Monster cable.
10g unbranded but silver plated 'monster' type 'stuff'.
8g car audio, 50% copper strands/50% silver plated copper strands.
'unknown' csa Expensive silver litz, multiple lengths per conductor, ptfe insulation inside some form of pvc outer casing, might be oversized heat shrink, will ask owner.
Cat5 plenum, various amounts of stranding - interestingly this sounds horrid, not just to my ears but also to the ears of the guy who loaned it to me.
Best balance so far is:
Cyrus: either gauge twin and earth inside and out
Kenwood: either gauge twin and earth inside with vacuum cleaner flex outside
Yet to try home brew 4 way plait inside and out.
Will make a well aimed guess at my FT17H's being the latest type, will have to phone Wilmslow Audio to find out.
Am also slowly putting money away for the components to build a pair of Pi6 constant directivity corner horns which use Eminence PSD2002 and the new production Pi270 horn profile, will hopefully have these items to play around with in the late new year.
Maybe I'm sat too close for the Ft's and the Lta's to integrate properly..... who knows, all I know is I'm still having fun.
Solid Cores:
1mm twin and earth with earth core removed
1.5mm as above
1mm and 1.5mm twin and earth, insulated cores twisted anything from 1 twist in 1ft to 1 twist in 3 inches.
1mm T & E, 2 + and 2- cores in a '4 way plait'..... will post pic
0.7mm solid hook-up wire, 1 twist in 6 inches
0.6mm solid silver insulated with teflon tube, 1 twist in 8 inches
Stranded Cores:
13 amp twin conductor flex from a dead vacuum cleaner
14ga Monster cable
10g Monster cable.
10g unbranded but silver plated 'monster' type 'stuff'.
8g car audio, 50% copper strands/50% silver plated copper strands.
'unknown' csa Expensive silver litz, multiple lengths per conductor, ptfe insulation inside some form of pvc outer casing, might be oversized heat shrink, will ask owner.
Cat5 plenum, various amounts of stranding - interestingly this sounds horrid, not just to my ears but also to the ears of the guy who loaned it to me.
Best balance so far is:
Cyrus: either gauge twin and earth inside and out
Kenwood: either gauge twin and earth inside with vacuum cleaner flex outside
Yet to try home brew 4 way plait inside and out.
Will make a well aimed guess at my FT17H's being the latest type, will have to phone Wilmslow Audio to find out.
Am also slowly putting money away for the components to build a pair of Pi6 constant directivity corner horns which use Eminence PSD2002 and the new production Pi270 horn profile, will hopefully have these items to play around with in the late new year.
Maybe I'm sat too close for the Ft's and the Lta's to integrate properly..... who knows, all I know is I'm still having fun.
Two days ago one of my musician friends called round, he's a guitarist and plays all forms of this instrument.
After warm greetings, he sat down and looked at the EmKens and said "These must be the speakers you told me about?"
"Yup, wanna hear em?"
"Ask a daft question why don't ya."
As we sat and chatted, we listened too a whole range of music, I put Claire Jones - Girl With The Golden Harp in the cd player......
Wills jaw dropped......"I've NEVER heard a harp reproduced like that, the sound is as big as the instrument is, most times it sounds like a plucked violin squeezed through a ducks bottom."
I then put on the recording of my good friend Lyndsey Rimmer, she's a local talent, whom I once managed to get into a recording studio - the recording is of her reading bits of poetry, us both talking, her singing and playing guitar and her belting out a bit of Amy Winehouse. The recording was made using a Sony DatMan Pro and a stereo mic dangled from the ceiling.
"Hey" says Wills, "That's Lynn Rimmer, we went busking one time in Truro years ago."
At one point things go really quiet, I was making cups of tea, Lynn lounging on a couch and the studio's owner sneaks up behind her and gives her a 'Wet Willy' and she screams.
Screams so loud that even though the mic was near 20ft away, it sounds like it was hard against her vocal chords!
Makes me jump and I know its there, Wills crawled up the back of the sofa in shock!
"You know what Darrell, you really lucked out with these, I'd like to bring my mic'd acoustic round and see what they sound like......"
I've had other friends round, some are 'sorta' into HiFi and some not, but all to a man / woman end up spell-bound by the sounds that issue from my Em's.
Then I tell 'em "There's only 3 pairs in the world and my pair are unique because they have adjustable tuning."
This weeks / months tweaking is Pluffing my Whizzers - a friends dog got bored and 'killed' a scatter cushion, so the tweak becomes 'The £ / $0.00 tweak' for me.
After warm greetings, he sat down and looked at the EmKens and said "These must be the speakers you told me about?"
"Yup, wanna hear em?"
"Ask a daft question why don't ya."
As we sat and chatted, we listened too a whole range of music, I put Claire Jones - Girl With The Golden Harp in the cd player......
Wills jaw dropped......"I've NEVER heard a harp reproduced like that, the sound is as big as the instrument is, most times it sounds like a plucked violin squeezed through a ducks bottom."
I then put on the recording of my good friend Lyndsey Rimmer, she's a local talent, whom I once managed to get into a recording studio - the recording is of her reading bits of poetry, us both talking, her singing and playing guitar and her belting out a bit of Amy Winehouse. The recording was made using a Sony DatMan Pro and a stereo mic dangled from the ceiling.
"Hey" says Wills, "That's Lynn Rimmer, we went busking one time in Truro years ago."
At one point things go really quiet, I was making cups of tea, Lynn lounging on a couch and the studio's owner sneaks up behind her and gives her a 'Wet Willy' and she screams.
Screams so loud that even though the mic was near 20ft away, it sounds like it was hard against her vocal chords!
Makes me jump and I know its there, Wills crawled up the back of the sofa in shock!
"You know what Darrell, you really lucked out with these, I'd like to bring my mic'd acoustic round and see what they sound like......"
I've had other friends round, some are 'sorta' into HiFi and some not, but all to a man / woman end up spell-bound by the sounds that issue from my Em's.
Then I tell 'em "There's only 3 pairs in the world and my pair are unique because they have adjustable tuning."
This weeks / months tweaking is Pluffing my Whizzers - a friends dog got bored and 'killed' a scatter cushion, so the tweak becomes 'The £ / $0.00 tweak' for me.
JKRO:
FT17H's still in their holes, but remain unconnected - I have played with their wiring / cap and only get joy when I can listen to them stood behind my seating position, with no way of getting sat back there.......hence my interest in your other thread mate, am going to have a go at a single cell 90x40 degree paper horn over the holiday and get started on a Class A amp.
Dave:
If a person builds EmKen for HiFi, they will have to accept the 12Lta's voicing and will definitely need to have a slightly bigger room / be sat further away than I am.
Small venue PA work should present no real problems. I've been playing around with Winisd looking at a sealed LF enclosure with a 15" or 18" per channel.
I will be in contact with you regards this.
Still having fun
FT17H's still in their holes, but remain unconnected - I have played with their wiring / cap and only get joy when I can listen to them stood behind my seating position, with no way of getting sat back there.......hence my interest in your other thread mate, am going to have a go at a single cell 90x40 degree paper horn over the holiday and get started on a Class A amp.
Dave:
If a person builds EmKen for HiFi, they will have to accept the 12Lta's voicing and will definitely need to have a slightly bigger room / be sat further away than I am.
Small venue PA work should present no real problems. I've been playing around with Winisd looking at a sealed LF enclosure with a 15" or 18" per channel.
I will be in contact with you regards this.
Still having fun
Well, earlier today I delved my hand into the bag of 'pluff', teased what I thought was a suitable amount for one driver and thought 'how to ensure equality?'
....Borrowed a pair of electronic scales that weigh in .01 grams, weighed the pluff at 1.7g, teased and weighed a second dose out, teased it out and had to used more force than expected to get it betwixt whizzer and the main cone.
Top mod, Lady GaGa's The Fame becomes, for the first time, really really easy to listen to.
You know, I cant be diddled with too much gushing 'Blah de Blah', so in Short:
The whizzer must have a HUGE output in its working range, even going by the posted graphs, both for stock and modded drivers, don't really tell the whole story. The effect of killing off the reflected rear out put is not subtle, EmKen on its own with (my) current porting DOES DO SKANKY BASS!
It was masked by the whizzers output!
Claire Jones's harps long strings, at last, go 'Plommmbbbbb'.
One can hear the odd 'wibble' as the Lta gets right up the freq range, I can accept that because everything else is 'Just Right'.
I've been listening for near 7hrs without fatigue and I wish I could listen for another 7 - pity I've got to curfew cos the lil lass who lives above is near her bed-time.
Thanks Dave..... so worth the pains and waiting.
Etocynedd, pity you didn't get in on this from the get go - I'll assure you here and now that if you buy the plan-set, build with even half decent ply and do the mods detailed in this thread, YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.
You'll learn a heap and have fun too
....Borrowed a pair of electronic scales that weigh in .01 grams, weighed the pluff at 1.7g, teased and weighed a second dose out, teased it out and had to used more force than expected to get it betwixt whizzer and the main cone.
Top mod, Lady GaGa's The Fame becomes, for the first time, really really easy to listen to.
You know, I cant be diddled with too much gushing 'Blah de Blah', so in Short:
The whizzer must have a HUGE output in its working range, even going by the posted graphs, both for stock and modded drivers, don't really tell the whole story. The effect of killing off the reflected rear out put is not subtle, EmKen on its own with (my) current porting DOES DO SKANKY BASS!
It was masked by the whizzers output!
Claire Jones's harps long strings, at last, go 'Plommmbbbbb'.
One can hear the odd 'wibble' as the Lta gets right up the freq range, I can accept that because everything else is 'Just Right'.
I've been listening for near 7hrs without fatigue and I wish I could listen for another 7 - pity I've got to curfew cos the lil lass who lives above is near her bed-time.
Thanks Dave..... so worth the pains and waiting.
Etocynedd, pity you didn't get in on this from the get go - I'll assure you here and now that if you buy the plan-set, build with even half decent ply and do the mods detailed in this thread, YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.
You'll learn a heap and have fun too
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