I hope you'll like the difference the inner and outer basket leg mods make.
Its odd isn't it? Especially on a 12" driver
Its odd isn't it? Especially on a 12" driver
Well, these are a very basic build so far, so possibly 'better' for quantifying mods as they are applied.
Could it be that tweeters are slightly over rated?
Matt the carpenter came round just after I'd put them back against the wall. As he likes Blues, I put him in the hot seat, gave the loud knob two extra clicks up and let him select tracks from Muddy Waters Folk Singer and every time Mr. Waters raised his voice, Matt jumped a little.
I asked him what he thought..... "They are (insert rude word here) stunning!"
And NO ONE has, as yet, asked me to turn them up since the 'drowning out of three Ford Transit Vans' incident.
Could it be that tweeters are slightly over rated?
Matt the carpenter came round just after I'd put them back against the wall. As he likes Blues, I put him in the hot seat, gave the loud knob two extra clicks up and let him select tracks from Muddy Waters Folk Singer and every time Mr. Waters raised his voice, Matt jumped a little.
I asked him what he thought..... "They are (insert rude word here) stunning!"
And NO ONE has, as yet, asked me to turn them up since the 'drowning out of three Ford Transit Vans' incident.
FYI, you ideally want the LP positioned at either 3rds or 5ths of the room's acoustic length.
GM
Assuming the speaker isn't too far from a wall, then around a 30" baffle width, no BSC is needed for a typical driver as it's 2 pi F6 is down around 100 Hz where room reflections would tend to flatten it out somewhat; ergo a driver with some built in BSC would sound too 'chesty', i.e. a woman's voice too manly [deep], etc., though musically it would yield a bit more drum, bass guitar 'slam'/'thump', so depending on one's musical preferences it may be the way to go.
GM
Thanks for the explanations GM.
Listening distance is between 3rds and 5ths of room length, I will try shifting my seating about.
Vocals are very good imo.
I have about 80mins of a lady friend singer/song writer on CD and flac, reading from text / talking to myself and occasional outbursts of spontaneous singing. As Lyndsey lives in the next village, it's no trouble to go pick her up, bring her here and A/B the 'real deal' with recorded sound.
This seems to work well for me, my 2.5 way towers were auditioned thus and have listened to them day in day out for 3yrs.
I will see what change the drive unit mods bring.
Listening distance is between 3rds and 5ths of room length, I will try shifting my seating about.
Vocals are very good imo.
I have about 80mins of a lady friend singer/song writer on CD and flac, reading from text / talking to myself and occasional outbursts of spontaneous singing. As Lyndsey lives in the next village, it's no trouble to go pick her up, bring her here and A/B the 'real deal' with recorded sound.
This seems to work well for me, my 2.5 way towers were auditioned thus and have listened to them day in day out for 3yrs.
I will see what change the drive unit mods bring.
Probably not needed. Lack of BSC can make a speaker sound thin, forward, shouty, etc. Basically no lower mids upper bass. But with those enclosure dimensions, the baffle losses should be pushed down into the room effects, which are a much bigger effect than baffle step. Also, I've heard the emken and it didn't have a baffle step problem. The fatigue you're hearing is likely the break up region. When the speaker was pushed, it got ugly in the treble. The version I heard had a tweeter though.
Well the sheets i saw at my local windsor plywood priced 5x5 BB at $60/sheet so im looking at about $500 for the entire build.
Ouch! I might pay to go back through this thread and see if you can find the post with how many sheets it takes OR ask the esteemed designer about quantities.
Yesterday (as it is now here in the UK), I added even more felt and some rolled up towels in the back corners of the Em's. This has cleared up some of the 'hardness' - its still there though.
Bass has become lighter so I'm wondering if I've gone too far?
Listening conditions were not the best, the lass who lives above had her washing machine, tumble drier and vacuum cleaner going.
And her 6yo daughter charging round like 3 heards of elephants.
Day off today so there will be a quiet spell for a decent listen.
This bit is true, says He who had thoughts of making the outside panels from even thicker material.......
Any ways, yesterday I got back from my cycle ride (Porthtowan - St.Austell - Gorran / Roseland Peninsula - Probus - Newquay - Porthtowan = 94 miles) I got home to total silence!!!
Kettle on for tea, Hifi on for music......
The new stuffing has wrought wonders. No nasties from the vents now, Bass all there as before, gone is the almighty honk on VSQ Plays Lady GaGa from cello / double bass.
Muddy Waters has lost all the overly gravel from his voice and his steel guitar / cordobro has that steel string resonating through steel box sound that only these instruments can produce.
I put on Katie Melua Secret Symphony and took my well earned hot bath, Ahhhhh.......
Then on went Stanton Warriors (FabricLive30) (HARD hitting 'club music'), Loud dial wound round to what would be described as a 'naughty level' for EmKenning and all hell let loose.
These things GO VERY VERY LOUD and though they go low enough, they don't have that bite / snap in the bass to pull this kind of music off to my taste / ear. One friend who lives 150 yards away commented in the village shop "There was music yesterday afternoon and it sounded like thunder."
Hehehe.
I'm still going to have a bit more of a play with damping material and this weekend is basket modding.
Phase plugs next week all being well.
Exciting stuff!
Just having read my post, I've had to check my cycle computer mileage against the same route ridden previously.
It should be 79. and a few 10ths.
Also, I will try the less 'grippy' Pioneer amp in the next quiet spell, see what goes on in the lower freq's.
I'm thinking that the voicing of an Electrocopaniet amp would go well with these.
Lottery tonight, £21 or £22 million....... fingers crossed chaps.
It should be 79. and a few 10ths.
Also, I will try the less 'grippy' Pioneer amp in the next quiet spell, see what goes on in the lower freq's.
I'm thinking that the voicing of an Electrocopaniet amp would go well with these.
Lottery tonight, £21 or £22 million....... fingers crossed chaps.
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It sounds like you are having a lot of fun!
I am a bit nervous about the phase plug thing - it's a fairly major bit of surgery and it might be good to wait a bit longer for things to settle in. The overall sound depends not just on the box, the damping, but on the amp, the cables, the quality of the mains supply, the liveliness of the room and how much Scrumpy you had on the last cycle ride....
I am a bit nervous about the phase plug thing - it's a fairly major bit of surgery and it might be good to wait a bit longer for things to settle in. The overall sound depends not just on the box, the damping, but on the amp, the cables, the quality of the mains supply, the liveliness of the room and how much Scrumpy you had on the last cycle ride....
I was concerned too but its a doddle on the 12lta. And the phase plug makes a big difference smoothing out the response
scrumpy oh go on then!! Middle Farm, just a few miles away, has the 'national cider collection' - 100 different barrels to try and take home. I like Kenny Cramps Double Vision
scrumpy oh go on then!! Middle Farm, just a few miles away, has the 'national cider collection' - 100 different barrels to try and take home. I like Kenny Cramps Double Vision
The phase plug thing (and just removing the dustcap from the 12lta) really worked for me. If it didn't I'd tell you so. Regardless, you need to feel comfortable cutting up the drivers.
It's kind of a shame that a 12" driver can't produce enough bass. I hope a few modern 12" fullrangers will be born by several manufacturers in the future.
Zilla
It's kind of a shame that a 12" driver can't produce enough bass. I hope a few modern 12" fullrangers will be born by several manufacturers in the future.
Zilla
Rich's Screech and Squeaky Tap,good stuff
I don't drink alkhol these days, best use imho is for tipping down the necks of race engines.
Chain ganging this time of year is fast, theres little traffic so not much call to brake. Most twist and go scooters don't even rate as cannon fodder.
I did listen to the Lta's with the dust cap while running them in, they produced a right ear bashing racket so I cut them out after about 2 hrs. Made a big difference, as noted in the 'Em Beta 12lta in a 3cuft box' thread.
Then JKRO launched this thread with a P10 enclosure and my interest was caught instantly. I've listened to some very nice small loudspeakers over the years and while they can do a lot correctly / sound very nice, they just don't do it for me. Neither have any of the smaller second hand floor standers. Theres times I miss the tweeter high, no where near as often as I thought I would.
These fit the bill regards size, they have rather good sensitivity, they are fairly cheep to build as a beta and Hay, give a wide range drive unit a go.
I can now see why people rave about this speaker type AND I can now see why the designer and tuxedocivic say the things they about these compared to the smaller (tiny) ones. Not having a cross over is a true revelation, there's a new rightness to what I hear. Sure they aint that smooth sounding in my current system.....
Cyrus 2 + PSX is a budget combo, it's the combo I wanted when I first got into hifi, imho far better than the Nad 3020 I owned back then. The lil Cyrus does not try and 'do it all', but what it does do, it does very well.
My front end is an old Creative SD Audigy thing that sits in my gameing computer . This can and is used clocked up, so even with fans in quiet mode its quite noisey. This I hope to sort out with a dedicated AV / Audio pc with an outboard dac etc.
Not the best equipement by a long long shot.
But wait....... this Is diyaudio . com, there's wizzards toys to be diy'd, HiFi to be made!
I'm sat here listening to a very nice recording from vinyl to flac of Janacek Philly Orchestra playing Smetana's Overture to "Bartered Bride", tis quite a stunning piece of work.
Remember that this is experimental, it is a PA speaker (it will get its chances) and part of a bigger goal.
Biguns avatar sums things up.
As this weekend might have iffy weather, hacking wood for the cross braces is out. So I'm going to have another play with the aysmetric porting, basket damping, whatch the Japanese F1 GP....... and if theres enough time start reading about enable AND wonder what JKRO's ACA will sound like with these AND do a sim race at Misano GP.
All fun
I don't drink alkhol these days, best use imho is for tipping down the necks of race engines.
Chain ganging this time of year is fast, theres little traffic so not much call to brake. Most twist and go scooters don't even rate as cannon fodder.
I did listen to the Lta's with the dust cap while running them in, they produced a right ear bashing racket so I cut them out after about 2 hrs. Made a big difference, as noted in the 'Em Beta 12lta in a 3cuft box' thread.
Then JKRO launched this thread with a P10 enclosure and my interest was caught instantly. I've listened to some very nice small loudspeakers over the years and while they can do a lot correctly / sound very nice, they just don't do it for me. Neither have any of the smaller second hand floor standers. Theres times I miss the tweeter high, no where near as often as I thought I would.
These fit the bill regards size, they have rather good sensitivity, they are fairly cheep to build as a beta and Hay, give a wide range drive unit a go.
I can now see why people rave about this speaker type AND I can now see why the designer and tuxedocivic say the things they about these compared to the smaller (tiny) ones. Not having a cross over is a true revelation, there's a new rightness to what I hear. Sure they aint that smooth sounding in my current system.....
Cyrus 2 + PSX is a budget combo, it's the combo I wanted when I first got into hifi, imho far better than the Nad 3020 I owned back then. The lil Cyrus does not try and 'do it all', but what it does do, it does very well.
My front end is an old Creative SD Audigy thing that sits in my gameing computer . This can and is used clocked up, so even with fans in quiet mode its quite noisey. This I hope to sort out with a dedicated AV / Audio pc with an outboard dac etc.
Not the best equipement by a long long shot.
But wait....... this Is diyaudio . com, there's wizzards toys to be diy'd, HiFi to be made!
I'm sat here listening to a very nice recording from vinyl to flac of Janacek Philly Orchestra playing Smetana's Overture to "Bartered Bride", tis quite a stunning piece of work.
Remember that this is experimental, it is a PA speaker (it will get its chances) and part of a bigger goal.
Biguns avatar sums things up.
As this weekend might have iffy weather, hacking wood for the cross braces is out. So I'm going to have another play with the aysmetric porting, basket damping, whatch the Japanese F1 GP....... and if theres enough time start reading about enable AND wonder what JKRO's ACA will sound like with these AND do a sim race at Misano GP.
All fun
For the moment, I've decided to just fill in the are round the magnet / basket interface with caulking and wire some of the nice Wilton to the inside of the baskets legs. Obviously to do the absorbent material properly I need more felt, it will show up some of the benefits.
And save a bit of time so I can have music.
And save a bit of time so I can have music.
So the bb is quite pricey. MDF would be sinful, but void free and spine crushingly heavy.
I remember going into a clothing store, Bootlegger, and seeing all the upright surfaces were OSB with clear coating on it.
With the metallic hardware i liked the look.
What about 15mm OSB for the cabs, maybe with a veneer of something nice on the front? Or just stained, any acoustic price to pay in exchange for the cheapness of the material?
I remember going into a clothing store, Bootlegger, and seeing all the upright surfaces were OSB with clear coating on it.
With the metallic hardware i liked the look.
What about 15mm OSB for the cabs, maybe with a veneer of something nice on the front? Or just stained, any acoustic price to pay in exchange for the cheapness of the material?
I wouldn't Etocyynned.
Save for plywood is my advise.
Are you running your Lta's in yet?
BUT then again, if one were careful not to take too much volume away, one could go mental with bracing, something like this:
from Biguns thread: http://http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/217893-bigun-audio-nirvana-super-15-a.html
Save for plywood is my advise.
Are you running your Lta's in yet?
BUT then again, if one were careful not to take too much volume away, one could go mental with bracing, something like this:
from Biguns thread: http://http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/217893-bigun-audio-nirvana-super-15-a.html
Absorbent material on the inside of the Lta's basket legs has improved things dramatically, massed voice choruses don't shriek, far far easier on the ear right across the spectrum. Quiet details are now clearer - Orchestral works go from mouse quiet to LOUD with no effort what so ever.
I've been listening to them now for 7 hours, music and game and they are virtually fatigue free, still the slight roughness though.
Very worth while mod this is, right up there with cutting out the dust cap.
When I had the drivers out of cabinet yesterday, I put 2 layers of masking tape on the interface between brace and magnet, cant hear a difference.
There's a Harp in this orchestra and its filling the room, delicate, huge and liquid.
I've been listening to them now for 7 hours, music and game and they are virtually fatigue free, still the slight roughness though.
Very worth while mod this is, right up there with cutting out the dust cap.
When I had the drivers out of cabinet yesterday, I put 2 layers of masking tape on the interface between brace and magnet, cant hear a difference.
There's a Harp in this orchestra and its filling the room, delicate, huge and liquid.
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