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Old 7th March 2012, 10:00 PM   #21
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Default Listening thought

Here are some excerpts from emails of my listening notes as they progressed:

'Listening to them as they are - Bass is deep but appears to struggle low low down. For some reason I think it sounds as if the driver need more 'air' pressure behind it - Thats not from a technical design standpoint but rather a feeling from the sound compared to my 3+ cft sealed enclosures before. The bass is much deeper however. Do you think the needled wool help?' - This was pre needled wool and holey brace

'Once braced & lined with needled wool the sound is absolutely amazing. A complete reversal from the undamped, unbraced box. I've only managed to get one completed..... Having one complete and the other unbraced & unlined allows for good comparison though - bass has flattened (reduced a small amount I think) and sound actually seems more extended in the upper registers as well. I'm a low level listener as I'm in an apartment but they leave very little wanting. Its only the bite of the super tweeter I crave.' - One done & one on the way

'Both units are now braced & lined. They are 2/3 of the way along my room firing straight with FT17H resting on top in the outside position. Imaging is really quite impressive for jury rigged layout with loads of depth as you'd expect from their placement. I guessing the 45deg edges help with that as well? Bass is strong but even - I'm learning that I was overdoing it before!! I thought the sound was maybe a bit mid-centric, so compared a couple of tracks with my headphone/amp/dac/imac system. It appears to be very near perfect, not needing great lumps of power to reproduce the whole signal. Any imperfections I am laying any issues solely at the feet of my old, soft sounding amp that will soon be replaced by a hifimediy amp I need to recommission.' - New amps gives these speakers a better signal - oooo they sound great now

'Still living the dream! A couple of musician friends are very impressed with the sound. Sax/Clarinet player (played with the HM Para's band & big bands on the side), who has no home stereo because 'they all sound unnatural' was blown away playing David Sanborn & classical clarinet pieces - said he could hear the reed......' - These speakers only impress my friends, many of whom are musicians
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Last edited by JRKO; 7th March 2012 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 7th March 2012, 10:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
dude, don't ever start listening 'til after it's completed / finished
I tried but I'm a sucker for a big full range driver
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Old 8th March 2012, 01:24 AM   #23
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
I think you can drop the "mini" -
Compared to the 11+ ft^3 Onken concept I sketched up some years ago when this driver was getting a lot of air play, this looks like a micro.

GM
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Old 8th March 2012, 04:16 AM   #24
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I wonder how this driver/cabinet compares to the decware corner cabinet?
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Old 8th March 2012, 02:02 PM   #25
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I would expect favorably. Although the Decware looks like an onken I don't believe it's a true aperiodic design like Dave's. Steve claims it's folly to design a speaker based on ts parameters because they are never accurate (doubt that he's ever tested Mark Audios) but I don't know if that's true of the lta. Only one way to find out for sure though - eh? eh?
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Old 8th March 2012, 02:35 PM   #26
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No, just look at its calculated +6 dB peaking at Fb to provide a SE amp's tube like bass 'warmth'.

The averaged measured specs I collected some years ago averaged a ~6% too small a cab, so assuming Eminence is still holding to the time honored ~10% manufacturing variance, over-sizing the cab ~10% + driver, bracing, etc. losses should be sufficient for allowing a bit of Qt rise due to small amounts of added series resistance and/or VC heating.

That said, few folks bother and the slightly under-damped response is usually swamped by the room's impact + folk's tend to deal with it by ear with internal damping if it's enough to obviously 'boom' and/or affect the mids tone, so in the scheme of things, using measured specs is good enough unless they're as far off as some manufacturer's flat out false advertising and/or going to be driven with a high output impedance.

GM
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Old 8th March 2012, 09:41 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbro View Post
Steve claims it's folly to design a speaker based on ts parameters
I guess he still thinks T/S parameters are scalars.

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Old 9th March 2012, 01:34 PM   #28
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>>> Although the Decware looks like an onken I don't believe it's a true aperiodic design like Dave's.

Is that what an Onken is, an aperiodic box? I'd imagine the vents out the front are designed to enhance and improve the sound.
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Old 9th March 2012, 02:07 PM   #29
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No, its multiple vents adds a resistive component due to all the vent's surface area, not that it matters much as the n = 6.34 alignment has peaking at Fb and its vent harmonics 'color' its mids BW.

A true aperiodic means 'without period', so for a speaker alignment this means its impedance peak is 100% damped, so typically the only true aperiodic speaker is a properly designed, well stuffed TL or 'ideal' BLH.

Don't recall ever seeing even a sim of a Fonken, so no clue how close to aperiodic it is. Ideally, we need a measured impedance to find out.

GM
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Old 9th March 2012, 02:40 PM   #30
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>>> and its vent harmonics 'color' its mids...

Oh, that sounds interesting. Who doesn't want a little color? I love a bit of personality with my speakers. Thanks GM.

I wonder if an Onken falls into the same territory as a Karlson (never had the pleasure of hearing either) by having its own distinctive personality (with its fans and detractors).

Having been hooked on OB the past year and without time to experiment and build i wonder about a lot of things.

JRKO, are you placing these new speakers into corners? I know you were accustomed to two 15" drivers pounding out bass so it will be interesting how you acclimate yourself to 'smaller' speakers with less drivers. Please continue to let us know.

Last edited by Godzilla; 9th March 2012 at 02:42 PM.
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