So I've always wondered when i see some truly huge enclosures for little 4" drivers or really any fullrangers what the point it. Let's be honest your not going to be shaking the walls with any single driver over a wide range. What's the point of squeezing a few db from the 40s or 50s and then having a sub for under that.
Why not just crossover at 70hz so you can't locate the sub and lowpass the full ranger. Thus would improve power handling of the whole system and negate the need for a gigantic full range horn.
It seems lit if your going to have a sub anyways you might as well just cross a little bit higher. It's one thing if you don't have a sub but I'm just talking about the systems that do.
Why not just crossover at 70hz so you can't locate the sub and lowpass the full ranger. Thus would improve power handling of the whole system and negate the need for a gigantic full range horn.
It seems lit if your going to have a sub anyways you might as well just cross a little bit higher. It's one thing if you don't have a sub but I'm just talking about the systems that do.
I mean its one thing to be ear height, I think that even some of the smaller spawn horns are within reason. I mean ones that dominate rooms. I seem to have misplaced the website but there's one I saw build by a guy and two interns that was made in 6 pieces just to fit it in the door. It was a exponential horn in a spiral shape with the driver mounted sort of in the middle of the mouth in part of the throat that dropped down. In addition to this behemoth he has two gigantic transmission line subs. It seems like you only need one or the other. A huge speaker with no sub or a huge sub and a small speaker if you know what i mean
Yes I do believe !! Once , I was fund also on horn enclosures ; my system now it's two way with 25 cm in TL and 1" dome plus waveguide .
But some may be fascinated by some strange contortions made by the air waves inside the enclosures , and how they might extend the lower octaves ;
it depends also on music genre , perhaps country music with guitar and voice only is good when heard with a full range and a big enclosure ...sort of an extension of the harmonic chassis of the guitar
As you said , it's the system and not the speakers : it is also the room ,and how many electronic devices do you want to employ at reproduction . Some may be happy with a simple SE tube amp , others not a simple one
Some others a full stack of heavy SS amps with electronic crossovers ...and so on .
But some may be fascinated by some strange contortions made by the air waves inside the enclosures , and how they might extend the lower octaves ;
it depends also on music genre , perhaps country music with guitar and voice only is good when heard with a full range and a big enclosure ...sort of an extension of the harmonic chassis of the guitar
As you said , it's the system and not the speakers : it is also the room ,and how many electronic devices do you want to employ at reproduction . Some may be happy with a simple SE tube amp , others not a simple one
Some others a full stack of heavy SS amps with electronic crossovers ...and so on .
Sounds to me like you're referring to Nelson Pass's Kleinhorn / El Pipo (shown below without the subs)
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn.pdf
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn2.pdf
Note the size of room, and that Papa has deeper pockets than many of us here with which to play with such silly toys - envy? - indeed
I've put 5" drivers into BIBs and the bass shakes the walls. The cheap 5" Dayton full range driver in BIBs is quite good at playing reggae loudly in a small room. I don't get the same room filling bass from the Fostex 127e but those drivers play more delicately than the Dayton. Loading drivers (large or small) in a BLH offers a different sound (more jump, larger image, fuller mids) than just boxing the drivers up in sealed or ported cabs. I could completely understand why some would want small drivers in horns even if they do add a sub for that last bit of bass.
oh, there´s nothing like horn bass... sounds so natural and effortless!I built the viech (back loaded exponential horn) with the 8 inch beymas and there´s no way I´m going back to plain bass reflex, sealed, or whatever! I´ll be trying something smaller now for my bedroom, and the route will be...another horn!
sounds so natural and effortless!I built the viech (back loaded exponential horn) with the 8 inch beymas and there´s no way I´m going back to plain bass reflex, sealed, or whatever! I´ll be trying something smaller now for my bedroom, and the route will be...another horn!Upscaling from the Vulcan for 8" Fostex FE206E - what driver size or specific model did you have in mind, and for what size venue / audience?
reticence, or resistance?
oh, there´s nothing like horn bass...
There have been debates/discussions about sealed versus vented versus TL versus OB. Imo, horn is the best, but only when done right, and when size doesn't matter.
The box referred to would not sound 'better' if it were larger for the excellent reason that it would no longer be the same cabinet. 'Better' is a floating point that depends on what is meant; FWIW, this enclosure achieves its design goals, being impedance matched down to ~Fc when optimally corner loaded.
Wow thanks for all the replies. Somehow I missed all the action earlier
Yep that's it. As impractical as it seems I still love those. It's a great example of why just kill when you can overkill?
So from what I've gathered people like horns because it helps over the full range with soundstaging and time delay, not just for the low end extension. Is this correct?
I want to build some Aikos (the baby spawn) for my room because it goes down near 60Hz which will make it listenable without a sub, normally i wouldnt care about that but my mother tells me to turn the sub off all the time. And with my up and coming dual 12 transmission line sub (drivers ordered!) This could become even more of a problem. Also the sub will be less locatable with th e lower crossover
I guess ill be able to see for myself the benefits of a horn (bvr more exactly I guess)
Sounds to me like you're referring to Nelson Pass's Kleinhorn / El Pipo (shown below without the subs)
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn.pdf
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn2.pdf
Note the size of room, and that Papa has deeper pockets than many of us here with which to play with such silly toys - envy? - indeed
Yep that's it. As impractical as it seems I still love those. It's a great example of why just kill when you can overkill?
So from what I've gathered people like horns because it helps over the full range with soundstaging and time delay, not just for the low end extension. Is this correct?
I want to build some Aikos (the baby spawn) for my room because it goes down near 60Hz which will make it listenable without a sub, normally i wouldnt care about that but my mother tells me to turn the sub off all the time. And with my up and coming dual 12 transmission line sub (drivers ordered!) This could become even more of a problem. Also the sub will be less locatable with th e lower crossover
I guess ill be able to see for myself the benefits of a horn (bvr more exactly I guess)
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You can always make the cabinet(s) smaller and much less sensitive for a similar result. I did that recently and am quite happy. The bass from these things is almost eerie.
Mind you, it means I need a 200 watt amp in the bedroom but watts are cheap these days and I happen to have some to spare. I'd be surprised if these puppies offer more than about 80dB/watt, yet offer sound better than most other bedroom speakers I've heard.
The NP ones shown above give you full sound for less than a watt. Do they sound better than mine? Too subjective. In my heart, I would love to try stuff like that. In my house, no chance.
It's all about tradeoffs, n'est-ce pas?
Mind you, it means I need a 200 watt amp in the bedroom but watts are cheap these days and I happen to have some to spare. I'd be surprised if these puppies offer more than about 80dB/watt, yet offer sound better than most other bedroom speakers I've heard.
The NP ones shown above give you full sound for less than a watt. Do they sound better than mine? Too subjective. In my heart, I would love to try stuff like that. In my house, no chance.
It's all about tradeoffs, n'est-ce pas?
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Those are some great looking speakers cal, I love the side firing (sub?)woofers.
And watts are indeed cheap, that being said, I don't know exactly but my quasi line arrays with 6 drivers each in a sealed cab are quite sensitive. I couldn't tell you exactly but I can pretty painful levels with a 20wpc amp at around a fifth of the way turned up. I would guess I only give them around 3w rms in normal conditions. Granted i do have a 120w sub...
And watts are indeed cheap, that being said, I don't know exactly but my quasi line arrays with 6 drivers each in a sealed cab are quite sensitive. I couldn't tell you exactly but I can pretty painful levels with a 20wpc amp at around a fifth of the way turned up. I would guess I only give them around 3w rms in normal conditions. Granted i do have a 120w sub...
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