Just out of curiosity, how much would the change from 19mm down to 18mm in line length in enclosures like these?
If I were to re-draw for this material size change, I'd draw the cabinet on paper (1 half), drawing the centre lines of the folds, then draw 9mm either side of these to get the material width.
If I were to re-draw for this material size change, I'd draw the cabinet on paper (1 half), drawing the centre lines of the folds, then draw 9mm either side of these to get the material width.
I've been trying to 'redraw' the Kirishima for 18mm wood trying to keep the sizes of the passages the same.
So far the changes from top to bottom (starting from the centre) seem to be relatively easy. Just keeping the distances the same while adding 18mm instead of 19mm.
But the changes back to front are giving me trouble.
Compensating the outer sides with minus 1 mm on both sides is my starting point. But then compensating for piece B takes another mm wile compensating for G an F takes 2 mm because of their overlap in order to get the passages from rear to G and than from G to F and then from F to the front pannel. So where do I compromise?
Or maybe I my approach is all wrong...
Other that that I assume that the stepped deflector also needs to be changed somehow.
Lastly, it seems to me there is a mistake on the overview drawing at the top where the top measures 17 3/4. Unless I am wrong this should be 18 (plus 3/4 for the rear) as it says on the last page.
Jock
So far the changes from top to bottom (starting from the centre) seem to be relatively easy. Just keeping the distances the same while adding 18mm instead of 19mm.
But the changes back to front are giving me trouble.
Compensating the outer sides with minus 1 mm on both sides is my starting point. But then compensating for piece B takes another mm wile compensating for G an F takes 2 mm because of their overlap in order to get the passages from rear to G and than from G to F and then from F to the front pannel. So where do I compromise?
Or maybe I my approach is all wrong...
Other that that I assume that the stepped deflector also needs to be changed somehow.
Lastly, it seems to me there is a mistake on the overview drawing at the top where the top measures 17 3/4. Unless I am wrong this should be 18 (plus 3/4 for the rear) as it says on the last page.
Jock
Hi Dave,
Thanks for all the effort.
I am going to try to redraw this weekend. So far I am not fully understanding the entire proces partly a language thing (I hope
) so I am sure I'll be be back here with some additional questions.As a starting point for me: You say in your reply " At the same time..." does that mean I do the changes as I described in my mail and than add yours or do I start with the original drawing and than follow only your instructions?
Jock
Hi, I am very interested in these designs.
I was working on a MHW(mid, horn, woofer) monitor but I am reconsidering that and I am thinking that going with something like this or another frugal horn design would be better.....and cheaper as the design I was working on was going to cost $500 in drivers alone and then i would have to get a crossover done somehow...active or passive.
With these great full range horns that wont be a problem. However, I cannot seem to find any sensitivity ratings anywhere for any of the designs. I would like to know this as I have been re-evaluating my budget for the speakers and amp in my listening room that I am working on. If I save enough money going with one of these designs and they are sensitive enough I will get a bottlehead stereomour to go with the Quickie I have coming. Or maybe build a budget F5 and just gradually upgrade to better parts.
My room is 10.5'wide x 10.5' deep x 8' tall. I also plan on acoustic treatments and it doubles as my office. Oh, and it also has double doors on one side and a single door in the opposite corner.
I was working on a MHW(mid, horn, woofer) monitor but I am reconsidering that and I am thinking that going with something like this or another frugal horn design would be better.....and cheaper as the design I was working on was going to cost $500 in drivers alone and then i would have to get a crossover done somehow...active or passive.
With these great full range horns that wont be a problem. However, I cannot seem to find any sensitivity ratings anywhere for any of the designs. I would like to know this as I have been re-evaluating my budget for the speakers and amp in my listening room that I am working on. If I save enough money going with one of these designs and they are sensitive enough I will get a bottlehead stereomour to go with the Quickie I have coming. Or maybe build a budget F5 and just gradually upgrade to better parts.
My room is 10.5'wide x 10.5' deep x 8' tall. I also plan on acoustic treatments and it doubles as my office. Oh, and it also has double doors on one side and a single door in the opposite corner.
The horn only affects the bass so sensitivity is the same as the speaker used in them.
dave
The room might be kind small for any of the 60 -72" tall double mouth horn to fully integrate, and the acoustic treatment required to tame bass in a square room could further reduce the net floor space.
I'd honestly be inclined to suggest something along the lines of FH3 or BK12 with FE126E or even a direct radiating MLTL - Fostex FF125WK works very well in a moderate sized box ( approx same size as Pensil 7).
any of the smaller single driver systems could easily be built for less than $500 including drivers, furniture grade multi-ply plywood and finishing
ok great. the FH3 was on the list but the Spawn family just seemed to catch my eye because of the interesting design.
I'm going to be looking into it some more. I hope to sell some stuff that I no longer use to have the funds to build a pair of speakers and get a bottlehead amp built.
Worst case scenario I will use the JBL 120Ti that are in the garage but they are only 89db sensitive.
hoping to get $1000 for the junk I have around here total
I'm going to be looking into it some more. I hope to sell some stuff that I no longer use to have the funds to build a pair of speakers and get a bottlehead amp built.
Worst case scenario I will use the JBL 120Ti that are in the garage but they are only 89db sensitive.
hoping to get $1000 for the junk I have around here total
I could get sarcastic and posit that "friends don't let friends listen to ..." but I won't (my only experience with "consumer" products by JBL wasn't particularly memorable, (well, actually not entirely true, but let's not go there
) the Stereomour is by all accounts quite a delightful piece ( I haven't heard one, but it's essentially the spiritual progeny of Foreplay and Paramours, which I own and quite enjoy) and in a small room should have enough power to at least get the 120Tis coasting along nicely
haha, my father-in-law is a JBL fan and has some 4312s for his mains and he is letting me recone and use the 120Ti for now.
When you mention the "consumer" JBL products i agree that the cheap ones are crap but i have never heard any of their more expensive products other than the 4312s at my in-laws....they sound good but the soundstage just isnt there but that could have to do with where they are.
Best speakers I have ever heard were some Wilson Maxx 3.....
I will look the frugal-horn some more, I would like those double mouth horns in the Spawn family but as you said....they would easily over power the room the size that I have.
When you mention the "consumer" JBL products i agree that the cheap ones are crap but i have never heard any of their more expensive products other than the 4312s at my in-laws....they sound good but the soundstage just isnt there but that could have to do with where they are.
Best speakers I have ever heard were some Wilson Maxx 3.....
I will look the frugal-horn some more, I would like those double mouth horns in the Spawn family but as you said....they would easily over power the room the size that I have.
haha, well i could be stubborn but it would get me worse performance. I have a PDR-8 that I am going to use with these for bass. It is currently in my system for bass smoothing according to the geddes theory....my other sub is a PC12-NSD....but even though it has smoothed the response a little it has also made it a bit muddy....I may not have implemented it 100% correctly but i havent had time to take any measurements and try and figure it out....
I am trying to do the math according to your instructions Dave and hopefully you can take a look at it.
All sizes are in mm measured from the center (0). The left is the original 19,1 mm the right is my attempt to convert to 18mm.
The 1x 1.05, 2x 1,05 3x 1,05 are there to illustrate the corrections made relative to the centre.
Two additional questions
-I do not understand instruction number 5, could you please explain this once more?
-Am I correct that panel B and C are not changed in the horizontal line?
Thanks,
Jock
All sizes are in mm measured from the center (0). The left is the original 19,1 mm the right is my attempt to convert to 18mm.
The 1x 1.05, 2x 1,05 3x 1,05 are there to illustrate the corrections made relative to the centre.
Two additional questions
-I do not understand instruction number 5, could you please explain this once more?
-Am I correct that panel B and C are not changed in the horizontal line?
Thanks,
Jock
Attachments
To be honest, i could redraw it faster from scratch than to check your addition, and i have too much on my plate right now to do that.
One thing i do note is that you haven't rationalized the dimensions to metric.
The dimensions circled in yellow should be rounded, ie 57.2 > 57, 38.1>38, 44.5>44, 50.8>51, 120.7>121, 190.5 to whatever is leftover (that is what i man by 5 -- if you find it is increasing too much, you can shift some of the extra to the next narrower passage (ie 120.7>122))
C will get longer, B will get shorter... again the details would fall out of me redrawing it.You need to thing about the space 1st, not the panels.
In the end all the dimensions should be unit mm (in the case of a space being a 1/2 mm (like the 1st bend), increase the space (ie 57/2=29)
dave
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How can anyone love fractions? And if your going to decimalise imperial, which was based around the length of Edward the Confessors shin bone or something, why not just throw it out and move into this day and age. Measure ten things to an accuracy of 1/32", add them up, then divide by seven and see what you think. Using metric it would be very easy.
yeah this is slightly frustrating with the MJK sheets. i can't workout if i can switch the units from inches to MM with some kind of option, but takes forever swapping between square MM in my designs and square inches in the worksheets. MM is so easy, you just say what you see. 18mm vs how ever many fractions of a whole inch.
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