Fostex f120a vs fx120 vs fe108ez?

[cross reference]

Hello all. I have seen acouple of post on the fostex f120a vs the fx120 but not between these three drivers. My wife wants a smaller driver. So I am about half way there on the f120a drivers right now. Now for almost double the price and alittle more are the f120a drivers worth buying because of the magnet that makes classic sound? I know it goes in a sealed box but that a good thing for me and easyer to build. So now for the other drivers between the fx120 and the fe108ez drivers? I know one is made for a horn box and the other for a ported box. Well I got to hear the fx120 at a audio show afew years back but, it was only for a few minutes and from what I hear and remeber it was very flat and very natural and none bright. The bass was lean and clean and the midrange was nice and the highs I say good. They did not have it turned up very loud so I could not rate them. It was in a front ported box. Well if anyone can give me a run down or some advise that would be helpful to me. Thanks jm

 

[chrisb]

Hello all. I have seen acouple of post on the fostex f120a vs the fx120 but not between these three drivers. My wife wants a smaller driver. So I am about half way there on the f120a drivers right now. Now for almost double the price and alittle more are the f120a drivers worth buying because of the magnet that makes classic sound? I know it goes in a sealed box but that a good thing for me and easyer to build. So now for the other drivers between the fx120 and the fe108ez drivers? I know one is made for a horn box and the other for a ported box. Well I got to hear the fx120 at a audio show afew years back but, it was only for a few minutes and from what I hear and remeber it was very flat and very natural and none bright. The bass was lean and clean and the midrange was nice and the highs I say good. They did not have it turned up very loud so I could not rate them. It was in a front ported box. Well if anyone can give me a run down or some advise that would be helpful to me. Thanks jm

Since the thee special words "my wife want were used within the opening sentences, you should probably consider what type/size of enclosures would be acceptable before chasing after a driver that might not be suitable.

Is the F120A worth the price differential over the FX120? It's been a while since I've heard them, but to be brutally honest - I don't think so.

While it has an enticing midrange, can the FE108EZ deliver the same SPLs and bandwidth extension of either of the 120s, in any type of enclosure? - not likely. There's a reason that Ed Schilling chose the arguably less refined FE126E over the Sigma for his Horn.

Do any of these deliver their maximum performance in simple sealed or Fostex "recommended" enclosures? not in my personal experience.

Another much more affordable Fostex driver that you might want to consider in this weight class is the FF125WK . All 3 of the 5 models in the new WK series I've heard are substantial improvements over their predecessors.

 

[planet10]

All 3 drivers you mention are old. The new FF125wk has jumped over them.

We consider FX120 & F120A interchangable, but to get any bass you need a vented box.

But the same can be said of FF125wk. I have (or will have soon) a millSize box for these, and the CGR of the larger box* will be a free posted plan.

* see ODougbo and jonparkhurst builds and comments on the rectangular& trapezoidal versions of this box.

dave

 

[Jim Shearer]

I have built Metronomes with the FE108eSigma and F120a drivers. In my experience, Metronomes have very high WAF. I have also built Planet10’s Fonken Prime with the no longer available FE127e.

I am assuming you are familiar with and accept the basic limitations of small, full range drivers (limited SPL and bass extension/impact).

The FE108eS is a really sweet driver. I found it necessary to use BSC on the Mets, and for some music, I use a sub to fill out the low end.

I bought the F120a to see about the ‘magic’ of Alnico. (In the end, I believe that design and execution trump magnet composition.) The F120a Mets did not need BSC. They play louder and deeper than the FE108eS. For most music I don’t bother with the sub. However, the F120a doesn’t like direct coupled SS amps--the high end dies. With capacitively coupled SS, they sound pretty good, but they don’t reach their full potential. If you want them to really sing, run them with a tube amp. I love their sound enough that I am building a Dynakit ST-35 for them.

I have not heard the FX120, but I suspect I would judge them good enough that I wouldn’t spend the extra money for the F120a if I had it to do again.

The FE127e Fonken Primes are also a winner. I am still amazed at how much bass these stand mount boxes produce--not as much as the F120a Mets, but significantly more than the FE108eS. I usually don’t bother with a sub for music, unless it has deep synth bass.

That said, with the newly available FF125wk in the mix, I probably would try them instead. I think Dave (P-10) may have a Fonken design for the FF125wk in his design queue. However: IMO, putting ‘monitor’ size (stand mount) speakers on book shelves is a bad idea. And if you are looking at putting them on stands, you use the same amount of floor space as with a Met. Personally, I would choose Mets.

Enough of my opinions. As always, YMMV.

Cheers, Jim

 

[cross reference]

Hay jim is there any pictures you could post so I can see the box you put the f120a drivers? Thanks for all the info and all the advise. I am going to research it alottle more before spending my money. Also how long have you had your f120a drivers and are they as quick as some say they are?Thanks jm

 

[cross reference]

Since the thee special words "my wife want were used within the opening sentences, you should probably consider what type/size of enclosures would be acceptable before chasing after a driver that might not be suitable.

Is the F120A worth the price differential over the FX120? It's been a while since I've heard them, but to be brutally honest - I don't think so.

While it has an enticing midrange, can the FE108EZ deliver the same SPLs and bandwidth extension of either of the 120s, in any type of enclosure? - not likely. There's a reason that Ed Schilling chose the arguably less refined FE126E over the Sigma for his Horn.


Do any of these deliver their maximum performance in simple sealed or Fostex "recommended" enclosures? not in my personal experience.

Another much more affordable Fostex driver that you might want to consider in this weight class is the FF125WK . All 3 of the 5 models in the new WK series I've heard are substantial improvements over their predecessors.

Thank-you for your help. Now ed and changing the drivers it could have been a cost thing as well who knows? I will looking into everything talked about and these drivers. Thanks again jm

 

[cross reference]

All 3 drivers you mention are old. The new FF125wk has jumped over them.

We consider FX120 & F120A interchangable, but to get any bass you need a vented box.

But the same can be said of FF125wk. I have (or will have soon) a millSize box for these, and the CGR of the larger box* will be a free posted plan.

* see ODougbo and jonparkhurst builds and comments on the rectangular& trapezoidal versions of this box.

dave

Thanks. I thought I read on a old post that you though the treaded fostex f120a and the fostex f200a were the best drivers out there or I could have read it wrong but, that was awhile ago? Dave when are you going to sell treated ff12wks and how much will it be in us dollars? Thanks jm

 

[planet10]

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then. FRs are getting better fast, Mark Audio for instance was not a retail speaker manufacture, a complete revision of the Fostex main lines, new Founteks, TBs, more.

I'd even choose EL70eN over any of those.

dave

 

[chrisb]

Thanks. I thought I read on a old post that you though the treaded fostex f120a and the fostex f200a were the best drivers out there or I could have read it wrong but, that was awhile ago? Dave when are you going to sell treated ff12wks and how much will it be in us dollars? Thanks jm

We've definitely listened to treated, F120A, but I'm not sure if the F200s that I heard at Bud's a year or so ago were treated or not.

"Best drivers out there"? - might have been Bud himself, and of course any such assessment is subject to change

even bone stock the FF125WK are very very good

 

[vinylkid58]

I still love my FX120 Fonkens. Haven't heard the 125WK's yet.

jeff

 

[Jim Shearer]

My build for the FE108eS:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/105022-my-metronome-experience.html
Note that I made a mistake by lining all four sides of the enclosure and had to correct that. Then I added BSC.

Build for the F120a:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/85410-metronome-60.html
Be sure to read on through p66 #657. My initial experience with the F120a on SS was not favorable. Tubes changed all that.

Cheers, Jim

 

[Jim Shearer]

Forgot about the question of 'quick'. This is not a term I understand relative to FR drivers. Some folks talk about 'slow' bass, but I think what they are hearing is a lack of coherence between bass and mid-range drivers. Errors in phase and amplitude between the true low freqs and their overtones in the mid-range can produce a negative impression.

Cheers, Jim

 

[cross reference]

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then. FRs are getting better fast, Mark Audio for instance was not a retail speaker manufacture, a complete revision of the Fostex main lines, new Founteks, TBs, more.

I'd even choose EL70eN over any of those.

dave

I am sorry if I had brought up water under the bridge. So dave do tell is the mark audios better then the fostex? I really do like the paper sound? Why do you like the make audios next to other drivers? I was looking at the mark audios Aipair 6p but are they better then the chp-70-p drivers? I wonder how the alpair 7 is? Thanks dave again jm

 

[cross reference]

My build for the FE108eS:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/105022-my-metronome-experience.html
Note that I made a mistake by lining all four sides of the enclosure and had to correct that. Then I added BSC.

Build for the F120a:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/85410-metronome-60.html
Be sure to read on through p66 #657. My initial experience with the F120a on SS was not favorable. Tubes changed all that.

Cheers, Jim

Thanks I will check it out. Jm

 

[cross reference]

Forgot about the question of 'quick'. This is not a term I understand relative to FR drivers. Some folks talk about 'slow' bass, but I think what they are hearing is a lack of coherence between bass and mid-range drivers. Errors in phase and amplitude between the true low freqs and their overtones in the mid-range can produce a negative impression.

Cheers, Jim

Okey not qucik the drivers respones to move back and forth and beable to not lack cone drag if I am saying right. Also to beable to keep up with all types of music. A quick driver respones and then moves back in to its normal place. I hope I am saying and writing it the right way and in the right terms. Jm

 

[cross reference]

I still love my FX120 Fonkens. Haven't heard the 125WK's yet.

jeff

How much were the drivers from dave at planet 10?

 

[cross reference]

Forgot about the question of 'quick'. This is not a term I understand relative to FR drivers. Some folks talk about 'slow' bass, but I think what they are hearing is a lack of coherence between bass and mid-range drivers. Errors in phase and amplitude between the true low freqs and their overtones in the mid-range can produce a negative impression.

Cheers, Jim

Jim Do you still have the f120a fostex drivers? If you do will you sell them to me? I am wanting to get a pair to see if I like them? Thanks jm

 

[Squeak]

A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then. FRs are getting better fast, Mark Audio for instance was not a retail speaker manufacture, a complete revision of the Fostex main lines, new Founteks, TBs, more.

I'd even choose EL70eN over any of those.

dave

AFAIK FR has always been good (provided the right application and quality of course). It's just that drivers that are easier to use, IE not requiring huge horns, a cm sweetspot if the driver was large, special amp or other particularities, are getting much more common and mature.

Old drivers like Coral, the old Fostex lines and of course Lowther, can still more than hold their own.

 

[planet10]

During all that follows remember that most of mine (& Chris') listening is with drivers that have been matched & treated.

Warning: long stream of conciousness follows.

So dave do tell is the mark audios better then the fostex?

Depends. Room, box, amps, taste are all factors. For awhile MA was pulling ahead, then Fostex revised both their main lines. They each have their strengths. If you have a small SE tube amp, the efficiency of the xx6En drivers give them a big edge.

A couple years ago i sent Mark a set of uFonken because the FF85k was trouncing the Alpair5 and Alpair6. I set him a goal of getting better than the FF85K with the next generation.

A recent 3" shootout had both the A6.2p & m did out perform the 85k -- kind of amazing given how good the driver is-- but Fostex hadn't stood still and the new FF85wk is neck & neck,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/196061-3-driver-audition-fostex-mark-audio.html

I really do like the paper sound?

I have never been a big fan of metal cones. Including the 1st gen Mark Audios.The 2nd gen with the unique multiform cones changed that. The Alpair 7 became my favourite driver. The A7.3 is even better (at the sacrifice of a small amount of bass extension). But the EL70 (CSS but made by Mark Audio) is not far behind, with more robust & more extension in the top end, a more relaxed sound, it doesn't have the downward dynamic range but one of the side effects of that is that it is not as ruthless revealing deficincies of the rest of the system including the software -- if you need to rock, or have an HT receiver i'd put the EL70 over the A7/A7.3.

The new FF125wk is right up there in contention (stock vrs stock, 1st treated ones haven't been listened to yet, boxes not yet done)

I was looking at the mark audios Aipair 6p but are they better then the chp-70-p drivers? I wonder how the alpair 7 is?

The Alpair6p does, IMO, give a vinatge sound with a laid back top good midrange and bass that is very unexpected from a 3" (mind you a large one). The CHP70 is not a driver i have heard (Europe & Japan only) . It gets high marks -- check out the accolades on the audioTalkforum -- and is broadly similar to EL70 and of the same time frame (Zia, the only guy i know that has both -- the guy is a recent over the top addict and proud of it), gives the edge to the EL70. The new CHP-70.2 (with gen 3 tech), Mark took the desires of people to have a more vintage sound, and ended up with something i personally feel was a step backwards (look at the FR charts to get a broad idea, big peak followed by deep shelf down). By itself it sounds just fine. Set it side by side with EL70 or A6p and it becomes clear that something is missing -- top harmonics in female vocals for instance. In the milliSize boxes we did this comparo in the A6p is actually the winner, the EL70 sounds a bit constrained -- put it into the larger box that it is happier in and it is clear that it is.

Now, to muddy things further. We developed the microTower as a tribute to Winslow Burhoe. It was always my intention tp eventually convery the microTowers we built to microTower IIs (ie add tweeters to the unused sides). With the CHRs in them originally this would be a receipe for HF pain. With the CHP70.2 the shelved down top can be turned to an advantage here making the MT II make more sense. It would also make sense with some amps, or rooms that are real "bouncy/live"

So it depends ... all these drivers are marking a time when FRs are finally starting to eclipse and improve on the best from the times when FRs were king.

Don't let buyer paralysis take hole, buy something and start playing. Compared to multiway systems they are cheap (money wise, not quality wise)

Questions? Did that make sense? (probably not completely )

dave

 

[planet10]

How much were the drivers from dave at planet 10?

Jeff keeps me well bribed so it is hard to put a money value on them. He helped me with some construction projects, i did the drivers he already had in exchange.

To get a pair of treated FX120 add $120 to madisound retail.

dave