Hi all I just joined. Been poking around a bit trying to learn.
I had an idea for a full range speaker and wanted to see what others though.
I was thinking of using a design like on the frugal horn site. I like the curvy chang. Little flare thrown into it appeals to me.
I was originally looking at the madison sound bk-16 or bk-20 and I like how they added the fostex tweeter to give more high end.
So what I was thinking was I like the idea of combining the curvy change design with fostex f200a 8 inch driver and fostex t900a to give it more top end. With the 8 inch driver I would hope I gain back some of the bass everyone says doesn't exist with a full range speaker.
At this point that is just and idea so I am up to any suggestions and being steered in the right way.
I use my system to watch tv and play music and when I have parties it's basically my all around system. I am using a xiang sheng dac-02a digital analog converter and meixing mingda MC34-ab tube amp. Currently using some polk speakers.
Thanks in advance and as I said I am open to anything and have lots of time to think about it.
I had an idea for a full range speaker and wanted to see what others though.
I was thinking of using a design like on the frugal horn site. I like the curvy chang. Little flare thrown into it appeals to me.
I was originally looking at the madison sound bk-16 or bk-20 and I like how they added the fostex tweeter to give more high end.
So what I was thinking was I like the idea of combining the curvy change design with fostex f200a 8 inch driver and fostex t900a to give it more top end. With the 8 inch driver I would hope I gain back some of the bass everyone says doesn't exist with a full range speaker.
At this point that is just and idea so I am up to any suggestions and being steered in the right way.
I use my system to watch tv and play music and when I have parties it's basically my all around system. I am using a xiang sheng dac-02a digital analog converter and meixing mingda MC34-ab tube amp. Currently using some polk speakers.
Thanks in advance and as I said I am open to anything and have lots of time to think about it.
I would tend to think doing Frugel Horn and others of the back loaded horn types would be OK.....assuming your skilled in cabinet making, most of us are not.
Keep in mind full-rangers won't "rock the house". Adding tweeters to full-rangers is really kinda point-less as Full-rangers key attributes are "Point-source", meaning, a single point in space is the origin of all frequencies.....adding tweeters throws all that out the window. Another is a lack of cross-overs of any kind, again tweeters induce phasing errors. Lobing errors also crop up with any other source of sound other than the ONE cone.
Bass "shortage" is to be expected, but not a crippling shortage, again the key is moderate SPL levels.
My choice would be a Tang Band W5-1611SAF 5" driver. At $47 each it is way under some of the other more esoteric types. Pricing can zoom up to obscene levels with weird cone materials & strange magnet assemblies....with debatable performance gains.
A straightforward bass-reflex, acoustic ratio sized enclosure,Use 1" MDF, on a set of stands.....a generous edge radii, Run the baffle-step program on your front baffle dimensions, place the driver in its best location....
This IMHO would be the way to go here.
If you want to build something more exotic you can "retire" it from service by using it as computer speakers...if you can "fit them" in your computer room.
____________________________________________________Rick.........
Keep in mind full-rangers won't "rock the house". Adding tweeters to full-rangers is really kinda point-less as Full-rangers key attributes are "Point-source", meaning, a single point in space is the origin of all frequencies.....adding tweeters throws all that out the window. Another is a lack of cross-overs of any kind, again tweeters induce phasing errors. Lobing errors also crop up with any other source of sound other than the ONE cone.
Bass "shortage" is to be expected, but not a crippling shortage, again the key is moderate SPL levels.
My choice would be a Tang Band W5-1611SAF 5" driver. At $47 each it is way under some of the other more esoteric types. Pricing can zoom up to obscene levels with weird cone materials & strange magnet assemblies....with debatable performance gains.
A straightforward bass-reflex, acoustic ratio sized enclosure,Use 1" MDF, on a set of stands.....a generous edge radii, Run the baffle-step program on your front baffle dimensions, place the driver in its best location....
This IMHO would be the way to go here.
If you want to build something more exotic you can "retire" it from service by using it as computer speakers...if you can "fit them" in your computer room.
____________________________________________________Rick.........
FTA-2000
Plans $25 - dirt cheap - a couple of sheets of plywood / veneer maybe $300 (unless you go silly exotic on veneers)
Drivers:
F200 ~$500 ea
T900A- ~$470 ea
No doubt could sound wonderful, but certainly not entry level budget for most first timers
FTA-2000
Plans $25 - dirt cheap - a couple of sheets of plywood / veneer maybe $300 (unless you go silly exotic on veneers)
Drivers:
F200 ~$500 ea
T900A- ~$470 ea
No doubt could sound wonderful, but certainly not entry level budget for most first timers
I kinda like those.
My only concern is the word "party". Single driver speakers using drivers with very limited Xmax are about finesse, not brute force. If you really want party speakers that will do music, then you should look into a 3-4" driver and cross it to a sub at the floor bounce frequency. Then you can ply crazy loud. My music/HT speakers are Alpair 7.3's crossed at 160Hz (even though the speakers are capable of 40Hz) which changes them to power limited rather than excusion limited.
Chris, if you will remember a discussion a while back of where to cross 7.3's in HT, I chose 160Hz because of a room related suck-out. Then one day came the head-slapping realization that the such-out was floor bounce. Once I got the XO above that, the FR became reasonably smooth.
Bob
Chris, if you will remember a discussion a while back of where to cross 7.3's in HT, I chose 160Hz because of a room related suck-out. Then one day came the head-slapping realization that the such-out was floor bounce. Once I got the XO above that, the FR became reasonably smooth.
Bob
Actually my memory fails me on that point - I settled on a lower XO one notch lower than that on the Denon - 120Hz. Set at 160Hz do you find much loss of imaging on lower mid-bass when listening to music, and how many "subs" are you using? When you limit the lower extend of bandwidth on even the smaller Alpair 6s, it's quite impressive how loud they'll play with apparent effortlessness.
Not terribly concerned with cost. Well I shouldn't say that. But if I can get a really nice set finished for under $3k I would be real happy.
But I definitely need to do alot more research before I pull the trigger.
oh, you're in for lots of advice now ....
such as - the other direction to consider with "assisted" Full Range drivers is something like a "FAST" - smallish FR* operating as wide-band midrange/tweeter, supported by any number and configuration of woofers
a sweet spot for units with decent enough HF performance that tweeters might not be needed seems to be the 3" area
the game's afoot
I have a single sub located in the right front corner. Never been an issue with HT or streaming audio. For music, 99 times out of 100, the basses and low brass are on the right. Again, no problem. I don't listen to enough rock to know it imaging is a problem when the bass is panned left.
Bob
I've been researching, designing and building Hi-Fi speakers since the mid 1960's, and the thing I'm excited about lately is vertical line array speakers, because of how they work with typical listening room acoustics.
The further down in frequency you go, the larger the effective distance (in frequency) between comb filter cancellations caused by room reflections (which amount to delayed signals that add at your ear with the direct sound). Below about 200 HZ this is usually a big problem with most speakers and rooms (due to the size of the wavelengths and typical room dimensions), causing what we perceive as "boominess", which is one of the reasons many people hate tone controls. They turn up the bass and it gets unbearably boomy. Line arrays that extend most of the way to the floor and ceiling will have so many reflection related contributions to what you get at the listener position, on all three axis, that those major suckouts in the low end will be largely filled in, which effectively evens out the bass response almost anywhere in the room, and then little or no boominess. Google "Roger Russel", and read about his experience with line arrays. He was head of speaker development at McIntosh from 68 to 92, and is retired now, but still active as a hobbyist. I'm looking at the 3 inch HiVi drivers which Zaph fully tested and likes (almost half off right now at Parts Express and Madisound). This approach requires an active EQ circuit to go ahead of the poweramp, due to a 3dB/octave rolloff that a line array will inherently have, and below about 100HZ they drop off such that you'll want to be able to pump that back up, down to maybe 30HZ with roughly 15dB of boost at 30HZ relative to 100HZ. That may be over your head, but it's really not that hard to do if you can deal with opamps.
The further down in frequency you go, the larger the effective distance (in frequency) between comb filter cancellations caused by room reflections (which amount to delayed signals that add at your ear with the direct sound). Below about 200 HZ this is usually a big problem with most speakers and rooms (due to the size of the wavelengths and typical room dimensions), causing what we perceive as "boominess", which is one of the reasons many people hate tone controls. They turn up the bass and it gets unbearably boomy. Line arrays that extend most of the way to the floor and ceiling will have so many reflection related contributions to what you get at the listener position, on all three axis, that those major suckouts in the low end will be largely filled in, which effectively evens out the bass response almost anywhere in the room, and then little or no boominess. Google "Roger Russel", and read about his experience with line arrays. He was head of speaker development at McIntosh from 68 to 92, and is retired now, but still active as a hobbyist. I'm looking at the 3 inch HiVi drivers which Zaph fully tested and likes (almost half off right now at Parts Express and Madisound). This approach requires an active EQ circuit to go ahead of the poweramp, due to a 3dB/octave rolloff that a line array will inherently have, and below about 100HZ they drop off such that you'll want to be able to pump that back up, down to maybe 30HZ with roughly 15dB of boost at 30HZ relative to 100HZ. That may be over your head, but it's really not that hard to do if you can deal with opamps.
I also suggest Karlson enclosures - here's a design for 8" drivers from Gregg Baker's Karlson forum called "XK8" loaded with a 1772 Tangband
here's the download page for xk8 plan and a variant https://picasaweb.google.com/gregmuon/STUPIDHIFITRICKS#5685712049966245090
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
here's the download page for xk8 plan and a variant https://picasaweb.google.com/gregmuon/STUPIDHIFITRICKS#5685712049966245090
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Now if I had an audio hobby room like that I would need a cot and pillow so I could medicate and drift off on the tunes.
You might check this design out. Good reviews from audio get togethers where John has exhibited them.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/110583-fast-fun-inexpensive-ob-project-46.html#post2752617
You might check this design out. Good reviews from audio get togethers where John has exhibited them.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/110583-fast-fun-inexpensive-ob-project-46.html#post2752617
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