Hey, look at this Jordan substitute driver !

chuck55 · 1st January 2012, 01:19 AM

The Seas W15LY001 is almost identical in specs to the Jordan JX92S

Differences I see:

1) From Zaph's measurements Jordan is lower in midrange distortion.

2) Seas lacks the extension over 10kHz. But the Jordan is so ragged, might as well use a supertweeter anyhow.

3) Seas does not have the 6 kHz breakup that the Jordan shows in Zaph's waterfall response.

GDO · 1st January 2012, 10:54 AM

I am afraid that the Seas unit will be awfully lacking energy in the top octave, whereas the Jordan will provide a very usefull output over 10khz, even if not the cleanest around. But it will do the trick whike the Seas surely won't.

Btw, though some use supertweeters with JX92s, i think that there are two many issues in the polar response because the JX92s becomes quickly too directional, and worse in the case of the Seas.

If you are not satisfied by the top end of this driver, don't be whimp and forget about minimalist "helpers" which won't do their job: the best is to set an orthodox xover at about 3khz with a proper tweeter like J.Griffin does.

http://documents.jordan-usa.com/JX92SG2siDesignPak.pdf

borispm · 1st January 2012, 03:40 PM

Hi Chuck,

It seems that the Seas woofer is a pretty good driver indeed, yet I suspect the usability above 4 or 5kHz is pretty limited, especially when listening off axis. Minimalist X-O isn't really impossible, a 1st order X-O at 4kHz may do the trick, if you're crossing to a large soft dome tweeter with really low Fs and clean performance. Forget about "supper tweeters" though, because you'll need tweeters that can go really low.

You may want to take a look at this:

Diapason Italia

It's a larger W18, but the idea is more or less the same.

zman01 · 1st January 2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borispm

Forget about "supper tweeters" though, because you'll need tweeters that can go really low.

Job for this tweeter?

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ld25dx1128.pdf

Some pics also here:

VWR126X Mid Woofer and LD25X Silk Dome Tweeter Preliminary Info - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

chrisb · 1st January 2012, 11:09 PM

There are very manufacturers with products in the same category as the Jordans (i.e. thin metal coned full range drivers) - Bandor and Mark Audio are the first two that come to mind, and comparable to the JX92? - well how about the Alpair 10.2 ?

borispm · 2nd January 2012, 12:42 PM

Zman, that tweeter could probably work, but I would suggest larger domes, say 27mm to 29mm... Sacrifice a bit of off axis for lower fs.

chrisb · 2nd January 2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borispm

Zman, that tweeter could probably work, but I would suggest larger domes, say 27mm to 29mm... Sacrifice a bit of off axis for lower fs.

This new XBL tweeter has FS of 830Hz and X-max that a lot of full-range drivers would be happy to brag about - Klippel of 1.85mm and limit of 3.1mm - would that not be low enough?

borispm · 2nd January 2012, 03:05 PM

I tend to think SEAS 27TDFC may do a better job.

The Fs or Xmax alone may not be the only indicator of the tweeter's usability in the low frequency range, at least on the paper the SEAS driver looks pretty good for the application.

Chris, I have absolutely no experience on the CSS tweeter so I can't really say too much about it. Yet I tend to think the lower the Fs the better for shallow crossover. A Fs of 830Hz isn't bad at all, but I would choose one with a lower Fs. The rated excursion capability is great, but I wonder if that's going to be useful for tweeters. Pretty sure it will start to lose "resolution" and sound "strained" when driven that hard.

borispm · 2nd January 2012, 03:06 PM

If you can employ multiple tweeters that may not be a problem, yet you'll have to deal with even more complicated problems.

zman01 · 2nd January 2012, 04:09 PM

Boris,

I am on Chrisb on this one. The specs on the CSS one look pretty extreme for a tweeter. I didn't know that tweeters had xmax worth mentioning

, but hey I am not an expert. The SEAS one looks good too and Fs is very low no doubt.

1st January 2012, 01:19 AM	#1
chuck55 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New England	Hey, look at this Jordan substitute driver ! The Seas W15LY001 is almost identical in specs to the Jordan JX92S Differences I see: 1) From Zaph's measurements Jordan is lower in midrange distortion. 2) Seas lacks the extension over 10kHz. But the Jordan is so ragged, might as well use a supertweeter anyhow. 3) Seas does not have the 6 kHz breakup that the Jordan shows in Zaph's waterfall response.

1st January 2012, 11:09 PM	#5
chrisb diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: victoria BC	There are very manufacturers with products in the same category as the Jordans (i.e. thin metal coned full range drivers) - Bandor and Mark Audio are the first two that come to mind, and comparable to the JX92? - well how about the Alpair 10.2 ? __________________ you don't really believe everything you think, do you? community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi

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1st January 2012, 10:54 AM	#2
GDO diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2009	I am afraid that the Seas unit will be awfully lacking energy in the top octave, whereas the Jordan will provide a very usefull output over 10khz, even if not the cleanest around. But it will do the trick whike the Seas surely won't. Btw, though some use supertweeters with JX92s, i think that there are two many issues in the polar response because the JX92s becomes quickly too directional, and worse in the case of the Seas. If you are not satisfied by the top end of this driver, don't be whimp and forget about minimalist "helpers" which won't do their job: the best is to set an orthodox xover at about 3khz with a proper tweeter like J.Griffin does. http://documents.jordan-usa.com/JX92SG2siDesignPak.pdf

1st January 2012, 03:40 PM	#3
borispm diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2010 Blog Entries: 1	Hi Chuck, It seems that the Seas woofer is a pretty good driver indeed, yet I suspect the usability above 4 or 5kHz is pretty limited, especially when listening off axis. Minimalist X-O isn't really impossible, a 1st order X-O at 4kHz may do the trick, if you're crossing to a large soft dome tweeter with really low Fs and clean performance. Forget about "supper tweeters" though, because you'll need tweeters that can go really low. You may want to take a look at this: Diapason Italia It's a larger W18, but the idea is more or less the same.

2nd January 2012, 12:42 PM	#6
borispm diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2010 Blog Entries: 1	Zman, that tweeter could probably work, but I would suggest larger domes, say 27mm to 29mm... Sacrifice a bit of off axis for lower fs.

2nd January 2012, 03:05 PM	#8
borispm diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2010 Blog Entries: 1	I tend to think SEAS 27TDFC may do a better job. The Fs or Xmax alone may not be the only indicator of the tweeter's usability in the low frequency range, at least on the paper the SEAS driver looks pretty good for the application. Chris, I have absolutely no experience on the CSS tweeter so I can't really say too much about it. Yet I tend to think the lower the Fs the better for shallow crossover. A Fs of 830Hz isn't bad at all, but I would choose one with a lower Fs. The rated excursion capability is great, but I wonder if that's going to be useful for tweeters. Pretty sure it will start to lose "resolution" and sound "strained" when driven that hard.

2nd January 2012, 03:06 PM	#9
borispm diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2010 Blog Entries: 1	If you can employ multiple tweeters that may not be a problem, yet you'll have to deal with even more complicated problems.

2nd January 2012, 04:09 PM	#10
zman01 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Dhaka	Boris, I am on Chrisb on this one. The specs on the CSS one look pretty extreme for a tweeter. I didn't know that tweeters had xmax worth mentioning , but hey I am not an expert. The SEAS one looks good too and Fs is very low no doubt.