Personally, I want to develope a dipole line.
I'm a dog. What do I know?
I´ve been spending the last coupole of weeks listening to the TC9, TG9, Faital Fe22 and a Sica 3,5" fullrange to figure out what could do best in a open baffle line array. Both Vifas have their merits but at the moment I think the Faital have the best midrange clarity. No eq thou - just the amp´s signal untouched.
But - I want to add tweeters and some type of bass augmentation so this may not be relevant in this thread.
I have a dog - she knows exactly when something is good or bad. She leaves the room when I play pop music or when anything sounds to harsh.
/Pontus
Did anyone look into some of the Fountek fullranges drivers fe85, fr88ex, fr89ex), seems like they do have a more "clean" extended upper range than the Vifa's
Fountek fe85
Fountek fr88ex
Fountek fr89ex
They look awfully like what Adyton employs in their new hi-end line of speakers
Fountek fe85
Fountek fr88ex
Fountek fr89ex
They look awfully like what Adyton employs in their new hi-end line of speakers
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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FE85 is very cheap driver and seem to be an interesting choice for this type of speakers, although they must be mated to stereo pair of subs that must be crossed quite high.
The Adyton range is the highest selling hi-end speakers of all times around here now, I never really properly auditioned the ones with the metal cone drivers, but the ones utilizing Vifa drivers with fiberglass cones are absolutely incredible....
Of course I wonder about this that it's line source up to approx 15kHz and point source above, well on this case it seems to work very well, the idea behind the ribbon that extends to 100KHz is extremely wide bandwidth, and it's not only for the dogs....
About spacing of drivers, they don't appear to be any closer on the ids-25 than Adyton's....
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That's because they aren't. 
Centre-to-centre spacing should be fine for nearfield. The separate sources don't sum above a certain point (which is why FR based line-sources require some form of Eq) but they're close enough to avoid any audible differences beyond a few feet out once you've boosted the top-end, or attenuated the bottom to match. What you will get with the central tweeter are more obviously dissimilar Fresnel & Frauanhofer zones, so there's likely to be more of an ideal listening distance than with a full array per se.
Centre-to-centre spacing should be fine for nearfield. The separate sources don't sum above a certain point (which is why FR based line-sources require some form of Eq) but they're close enough to avoid any audible differences beyond a few feet out once you've boosted the top-end, or attenuated the bottom to match. What you will get with the central tweeter are more obviously dissimilar Fresnel & Frauanhofer zones, so there's likely to be more of an ideal listening distance than with a full array per se.
Roger Russel also tried with a tweeter "in the middle" of the IDS-25 proto but he claimed there be be some kind of audible "hole" that disappeared when he removed the tweeter and made it a true line source...
I wonder, of course, how audible this is, and how much of a change this makes.
Need to read more to understand what you mean by Fresnel & Frauanhofer zones .-)
I wonder, of course, how audible this is, and how much of a change this makes.
Need to read more to understand what you mean by Fresnel & Frauanhofer zones .-)
That's because they aren't.
Centre-to-centre spacing should be fine for nearfield. The separate sources don't sum above a certain point (which is why FR based line-sources require some form of Eq) but they're close enough to avoid any audible differences beyond a few feet out once you've boosted the top-end, or attenuated the bottom to match. What you will get with the central tweeter are more obviously dissimilar Fresnel & Frauanhofer zones, so there's likely to be more of an ideal listening distance than with a full array per se.
Scott - does this mean that you can repeal that the drivers would work as separate sources, not a line, above certain frequencies, here appox 4300 with c-c spacing of 80 mm, by using EQ?
Wouldn´t the sources still work as in the farfield of a domestic arrays? As separate sources, that is. The array would of course still be able to take more power and have other pros of being an array.
In my world, a pretty easy going and understandable kind of place, frequencies that suffer from destructive interference between drivers can be EQ´d to suitable dB but cannot have the characteristac -3dB dropping in amplitude. Thus - not funtional as a fullrange array.
But I am wrong alot.
Haroldo - I used to live with Adyton Cordis pre and power amps and they were just as good as you would expect for that price. I am sure that Adyton make wonderful speakers and mean no disrespect to them or their followers.
First I've heard that he had one with a central tweeter. AFAIK the entire point of these was that he wanted to use a single column of widebanders.
A big one if you change distance.
Read 'neafield' and 'farfield.'
I think we're getting into linguistic semantics for the sake of it. What I'm saying is that a column made of individual small widebanders exhibits consistant behaviour along its length, which is not the case with a central tweeter. As far as a listener is concerned, providing it is Eq'd appropriately, such a speaker is effectively a line source.
Sorry for not responding earlier
Oh yes eq. is nessesary. Not that much, but absolutely nessesary.
The one with Aura sound is eq. by a Behringer deq96 and is palying in my HT room. Does a good job here. Crossed over to 4x 10" subwoofers @120Hz and aided in the top by a 19mm ring radiator.
The Vifa source is my main reference speaker. Eventually I will mate it with a IB subwoofer as it cannot play loud enough in the bottom octave to my taste.
I use Audiolense to eq. it and room correct at the same time.
These are amazing speakers!!!
The best I have had. A little trick:
Put a little Isopunkt made thinner with turpentine on the paper cones and let oit harden in UV light. Takes them a step up in clarity and definition.
It is closed boxes both of them.
The alu boxes are actually a little too small, but when the subs are ready, makes no problems.
They play insanely loud when crossed over about 80-100 Hz.
Koldby
Thanks HaraldoDid you do any equalizing? how do they work for you? Is it closed box?
Dansk Dynamit
Oh yes eq. is nessesary. Not that much, but absolutely nessesary.
The one with Aura sound is eq. by a Behringer deq96 and is palying in my HT room. Does a good job here. Crossed over to 4x 10" subwoofers @120Hz and aided in the top by a 19mm ring radiator.
The Vifa source is my main reference speaker. Eventually I will mate it with a IB subwoofer as it cannot play loud enough in the bottom octave to my taste.
I use Audiolense to eq. it and room correct at the same time.
These are amazing speakers!!!
The best I have had. A little trick:
Put a little Isopunkt made thinner with turpentine on the paper cones and let oit harden in UV light. Takes them a step up in clarity and definition.
It is closed boxes both of them.
The alu boxes are actually a little too small, but when the subs are ready, makes no problems.
They play insanely loud when crossed over about 80-100 Hz.
Koldby
Amazing. Really amazing.
If you think such beast are big and bloated - think again..
They can pinpoint if it is in the recording, make vast spaces if it is there, and are ligthning quick and dynamic.
koldby
This has been an ongoing discussion.
It is true that such a line array will have some dropoff in the treble (in the vifa case starting around 6 Khz).
But if you are more than 2-3 meters away, there is absolutely no lobing effect. Of course you have to compensate for the HF dropoff, either by using a tweeter or eq the line array.
I have not yet tried the tweeter solution (I want to mate it with a linesource tweeter) as they are sounding sooo good without, that there is a lot of other projects coming before that.
koldby
As far as I know Adyton uses only a simple 1st order x-over arlund 10Khz, and I never heard of burned tweeters, and they give them lots of power!!!!
The speakers with aluminum FR drivers is crossed more around 15KHz - 18KHz as far as I heard.....
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Sorry for not responding earlier
Thanks Haraldo
Oh yes eq. is nessesary. Not that much, but absolutely nessesary.
The one with Aura sound is eq. by a Behringer deq96 and is palying in my HT room. Does a good job here. Crossed over to 4x 10" subwoofers @120Hz and aided in the top by a 19mm ring radiator.
The Vifa source is my main reference speaker. Eventually I will mate it with a IB subwoofer as it cannot play loud enough in the bottom octave to my taste.
I use Audiolense to eq. it and room correct at the same time.
These are amazing speakers!!!
The best I have had. A little trick:
Put a little Isopunkt made thinner with turpentine on the paper cones and let oit harden in UV light. Takes them a step up in clarity and definition.
It is closed boxes both of them.
The alu boxes are actually a little too small, but when the subs are ready, makes no problems.
They play insanely loud when crossed over about 80-100 Hz.
Koldby
Tusen tak !!!!
This is very encouraging, I played with the thought if I should look into smething with the Fountek FR drivers and when I see the results you guys get here, it's really getting more and more tempting.....
Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but..... well, actually my father told me there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers
Could it be that the ribbon tweeter in the middle of the line source, as is on the Adyton's... are there to fill in some of the high frequency loss you otherwise would have and as such meaning, less eq need in the high frequency band?
Could it be that the ribbon tweeter in the middle of the line source, as is on the Adyton's... are there to fill in some of the high frequency loss you otherwise would have and as such meaning, less eq need in the high frequency band?
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