full range + woofer OR full range + tweeter ?

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Jump to Latest
Godzilla

Godzilla

Member
Joined 2005
speakerprojects.wordpress.com
>>> Definetely small full range with bass support.

Definetly large full range with tweeter.

LOL, I think both approaches can work beautifully. The hardest part is choosing which to focus your efforts... maybe pick one first and the other next. Doing both may uncover strategies and best practices to handle each.

Personally, i think the BEST approach is a full range driver (pick your favorite regardless of size), add a woofer for bass support and a tweeter for treble support.

But that's just me.

Zilla
 
Bigun

Bigun

Member
Joined 2009
diyaudio.com/community/threads/tgm8-an-amplifier-based-on-rod-elliot-p3a.245619/
Paid Member
zman01 said:
Even SS would be ok ...
Click to expand...

go and wash your mouth out with soap and water ! :D

I want to use tubes, and as I've never dabbled with PP tubes this is another opportunity to learn. I have some 6C4C's to use up (or I could buy some KT88's) - and Class AB would allow headroom for some bass transients whilst still giving me Class A most of the time.


planet10 said:
One gets rid of a very significant downside of XOs if one can space the drivers such that they are within a 1/4 wavelength (or less) of each other.
Click to expand...

That's an excellent point, whilst it would be possible to put the tweeter in front of the woofer it would no longer be an OB.

planet10 said:
It is also an ideal place (if one takes care with driver selection) to do a series XO. The very nature of the series XO also means that the responses of the 2 drivers can automatically compensate for anomalies inherent in the drivers.
Click to expand...

Do tell more - can you point me to further information, it sounds like something I should investigate.


chrisb said:
are they treated to any degree?
Click to expand...
they have the tri-foil 'Dave' treatment but this didn't fix the issue; no eNable yet though. Notch filter killed the sound. The Fountek's are great.

_henry_ said:
U can use exodus anarchy 2 per side to get approx 86-87db sens.
Click to expand...
If possible, I'd like to get into 90dB territory, which kind of suggests the full range can't be too small.
 
B

BHTX

Member
Joined 2006
I've honestly never seen what all the fuss is about with putting crossovers in any "critical range" (different numbers are always thrown about every time), as a 4th order crossover sounds just as bad to me at 100Hz as it does at 1KHz. I've found that the only way to avoid the ringing and negative effects of crossovers while still using them is to carefully use simple 1st order filters, which is difficult to do correctly. Ideally, this usually limits designs to something like a 3" driver with a small woofer in a 2-way ..or said 2-way that rolls off at 100Hz and a carefully chosen "sub" with a 1st order low-pass at that freq (digitally, with a separate amplifier).
 
Last edited:
H

_henry_

Member
Joined 2002
I do found out that a true 3way have the best sound. After using jx92 and alpairs. They do miss the highs and don't have enough bottom end to provide real live music.

On the other hand, if u want something sweet sounding, easy to build, and listening at low level, fullrangers like alpair10 and jx92s is definitely is better than most 2ways.

Cheers
Henry
 
H

_henry_

Member
Joined 2002
Space constraint = find good xmax of 7-8inchers, which exodus fits this, and with very small box volume.

Big space = use 15" pro woofer, something like lambda td15 or dipole15, eminence kappa lite 15"

Invest on EQ, like mr. Pass B5 or dsp based EQ, starting from minidsp, dcx, hypex, DBx, labgruppen etc.

Ribbon usually good match with alum cones, although I don't have extensive experience.

Cheers
Henry
 
P

Paul Spurgeon

Member
Joined 2011
Full range + woofer

I strongly recommend a full range with woofer vs. full range plus tweeter. I am currently using a Tang Band w3-1878 coupled with two 10 inch Eminence woofers in isobarik loading, with a choke on the woofers at 150 Hz. It compares very favorably with my best 3 way consisting of an SEAS Millenium tweeter, Morel 3 inch dome mid, and 6 inch Peerless in transmission line loading, at half the cost.
 
E

Enochrome

Member
Joined 2011
planet10 said:
+1, it is usually done with XO only on the tweeter, so the extension of the FR determines the frequency, usually above 10k.

My preference is the FR + Woofer.

Why it has the potential to work better is down to the wavelength at the XO point. One gets rid of a very significant downside of XOs if one can space the drivers such that they are within a 1/4 wavelength (or less) of each other. If one can do this then the drivers are essentially co-incident -- to do the same with a helper tweeter it would need to be co-axial with an appropriate time delay on one driver.

Further, there are LOTs of decent midbasses to choose from that extend to 1kHz+, and a growing number of FRs that will hit 100 Hz or less and have extension to 20k+. This engenders a simple 1st order XO which means retention of time/phase. It is also an ideal place (if one takes care with driver selection) to do a series XO. The very nature of the series XO also means that the responses of the 2 drivers can automatically compensate for anomalies inherent in the drivers. This is one place where a passive XO can have advantages over active XOs.

Third, careful choice of XO frequency (amps & impedances too) can get you inherent BSC (doesn't apply to OBs, MJK has good coverage of that in his passive baffle articla)

Forth, back to the wavelengths... when down low, there are no issues with lobing of the dispersion because, due to 3, driver response is approaching omnidirectional.

And a comment on item 2. As the cost, sophistication and choice of DSP continues to plummet I can see some serious advantages to using a 1st order series XO to get into the ballpark, and then DSP EQ to tidy up the details.

It should be noted that a FAST is actually closer to a "real" 2-way than a helper tweeter, as the bass driver handles 2-4 octaves (using 80-320 Hz XO point) whereas a helper tweeter is more like a single octave (XO @ 10k) so you get more of the advantage out of job sharing.

dave
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I want to do with my vintage CTS 12" woofer and a Mark Audio CHP-70-DP.

Thread about this:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/232299-full-range-great-highs-new-post.html

I am thinking about the Mark Audio because in the write they mention the high roll off and paper material in relation to drivers from the 50's which I think my woofer is more in line with. Also, they match aesthetically as well and are affordable. I have to settle for the Gen-1 because the Gen 2 is out of stock.

Any opinions?
 
murat

murat

Member
Joined 2004
Paul Spurgeon said:
I strongly recommend a full range with woofer vs. full range plus tweeter. I am currently using a Tang Band w3-1878 coupled with two 10 inch Eminence woofers in isobarik loading, with a choke on the woofers at 150 Hz. It compares very favorably with my best 3 way consisting of an SEAS Millenium tweeter, Morel 3 inch dome mid, and 6 inch Peerless in transmission line loading, at half the cost.
Click to expand...

Don't you have any HP filter on w3-1878 ???
 
33Polkhigh

33Polkhigh

Member
Joined 2017
My go to system is a fast system with a hivi m8n and aurasound whisper mid-tweeter. IMO the lobing issue makes a mid-tweet easier to work with.

I use equalizer APO and a PC soundcard as the crossover. I can control which drivers play which frequencies to hundreths of a db and control timing as well.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Top Bottom