Hello out there
I like to introduce my new speaker based on Visaton Pentaton BB because I'm amazed by myself how gorgeous they sound. Very natural, accurate and holographic, more like a BIG magnetostatic or electrostatic system than a typical full-range system. I owned some very expensive speaker systems the last 20 years but this one beats them all -but costs are comparatively low.
Eight Visaton BG20 and two B200 per side in a curved front closed box. The two B200 are central and play full-range, the BG20 are cut off at higher freq. from 9500Hz down to 1600Hz, beginning middle to the outside. The radius of the curve is the distance to the listening area (here 5.5m ~18ft.) so all speaker are directed to the ears. The crossover is in a separate wooden box near the power amplifiers. Below approx. 160Hz the line-array is cut by a BSS FDS 336 and there are two horns like those from Klipsch per side (the line array got a delay of course). The next days there will be a sub driven by PD2450 Precision Devices to get frequency from 16-40Hz
It is really worth to experiment with this kind of arrangement
I like to introduce my new speaker based on Visaton Pentaton BB because I'm amazed by myself how gorgeous they sound. Very natural, accurate and holographic, more like a BIG magnetostatic or electrostatic system than a typical full-range system. I owned some very expensive speaker systems the last 20 years but this one beats them all -but costs are comparatively low.
Eight Visaton BG20 and two B200 per side in a curved front closed box. The two B200 are central and play full-range, the BG20 are cut off at higher freq. from 9500Hz down to 1600Hz, beginning middle to the outside. The radius of the curve is the distance to the listening area (here 5.5m ~18ft.) so all speaker are directed to the ears. The crossover is in a separate wooden box near the power amplifiers. Below approx. 160Hz the line-array is cut by a BSS FDS 336 and there are two horns like those from Klipsch per side (the line array got a delay of course). The next days there will be a sub driven by PD2450 Precision Devices to get frequency from 16-40Hz
It is really worth to experiment with this kind of arrangement
I have 8 of cheap Chinese no-name 4" polypropylene cone drivers per side, plus 16 notebook speakers per side as tweeters, in walls. Sounds gorgeous. Nothing curved, nothing special, but sounds fantastic. A pair of 12" woofers in concrete boxes match them well. Sweet spot is all around the listening room, also in the adjacent kitchen.
>talaerts You're right, it is important to have the ears in the sweet-spot to have the full performance. But half a meter left or right is also okay. For two people it is practicable to listen. But sitting in the right position it is absolute phantastic and holographic-a guitar sounds like that and a big orchestra does too. The rate is correct, equal if a single guitar or a big orchestra. The best I've listened to for years
As background info, Koserthal was inspired by this "Pentaton B" system:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I like the idea, and the horns behind are very well integrated in the visual design.
But can somebody explain me the relevance of a curved baffle claiming " to put each speaker at the same distance of the ears" when the filter is a 3 ways ( and not a first order) introducing it's own phase shifts ? Is this enough offset to compensate everything at once ?
But can somebody explain me the relevance of a curved baffle claiming " to put each speaker at the same distance of the ears" when the filter is a 3 ways ( and not a first order) introducing it's own phase shifts ? Is this enough offset to compensate everything at once ?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It was my point. Low distortions, good imaging on wide listening area, are major pluses of line arrays. They sound equally nice when I stand in the room, or sit on the sofa. Why curved?
Of course, the intention is time aligning. This can be justified with unfiltered full rangers, but here with the filters, I wonder if the small resulting offset is enough.
As the system sounds nicely, this means maybe that the concave curved baffle is more a cosmetic affair, it's rather a good new for DIY business.
OTOH, maybe the "misalignment" is a volunteer feature of the design by Visaton (shading, tapered, taping... I dunno the right term) that can be seen in Keele or Russel arrays. Quad also. This I would like to know because I am planning some arrays too.
As the system sounds nicely, this means maybe that the concave curved baffle is more a cosmetic affair, it's rather a good new for DIY business.
OTOH, maybe the "misalignment" is a volunteer feature of the design by Visaton (shading, tapered, taping... I dunno the right term) that can be seen in Keele or Russel arrays. Quad also. This I would like to know because I am planning some arrays too.
The main reason is, right, the correct timing, especially when you got a short distance to your listening area. Next is the drivers are real point sounders but with the curved front you're sitting in the sweet spot. I can say that even small instruments like a violin don't appear like a big intrument. Before I owned a Infinity RS1-wonderful speaker by the way- but small intruments were pictured too big and sopranos seems to be 3meter large.
I also listened to line-arrays approx. the same height (2,25m ~7.38 ft.) like Infinity Reference Standard or Genesis 1.1 and they are wonderful when sitting more than 10m (32ft.) away but in a smaller room like most people have it doesn't work anymore. Another member said my speaker would sounds like giant headphones. That's right
I also listened to line-arrays approx. the same height (2,25m ~7.38 ft.) like Infinity Reference Standard or Genesis 1.1 and they are wonderful when sitting more than 10m (32ft.) away but in a smaller room like most people have it doesn't work anymore. Another member said my speaker would sounds like giant headphones. That's right
hmm........... with the other drivers coming in at 950hz and below, I think as long as you are within 1/4 wavelength of the crossover point, you'd be in phase.
I made a 4 x 4" full range driver (wires series/parallel).
Vert sweet spot was maybe 2" at 12'. And you had to be 10-12' away. Disorienting when you stand up. And that 4" has maybe 3 people wide dispersion at 12' also.
Otherwise it sounded excellent, but only had the area of a single 8".
I dare someone to make a focused 4, 6, or 8 driver b200, maybe the betsy drivers.
The dynamics would be awesome.
Norman
I made a 4 x 4" full range driver (wires series/parallel).
Vert sweet spot was maybe 2" at 12'. And you had to be 10-12' away. Disorienting when you stand up. And that 4" has maybe 3 people wide dispersion at 12' also.
Otherwise it sounded excellent, but only had the area of a single 8".
I dare someone to make a focused 4, 6, or 8 driver b200, maybe the betsy drivers.
The dynamics would be awesome.
Norman
I like to say that the developer of the Pentaton BB has drafted a supplement for the crossover, he called it PLUS which lowers the efficienty factor but with a much more powerful and lower bass.
Even the Base, the Pentaton BB, is high rated by people who lisened to and they are united that for that money you hardly can get a equivalent.
I don't use the PLUS supplement because I got the Horn assisting the line array-by the way the favourite sleeping place of my cat who is frequently boarding in-until this awful noise is starting..
Even the Base, the Pentaton BB, is high rated by people who lisened to and they are united that for that money you hardly can get a equivalent.
I don't use the PLUS supplement because I got the Horn assisting the line array-by the way the favourite sleeping place of my cat who is frequently boarding in-until this awful noise is starting..
there is a guy that uses 8 b200 all wired in parallel (flat vert array).
remember that it (b200) has +15db rise from 100hz to 15khz.
And, a flat 8" has limited dispersion past 2khz..........
post #589 (picture)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-ob-gallery-59.html
Paul Hynes talks about it.
Lowther Array Open Baffle?
I have a soft spot for one of my earliest speakers, 6 x 8" rat shacks in each Kustom pa column speaker (long sold). Very loud (ac/dc, bon jovi). But I am worried that if I remade this, my ears have become so much more picky, that I may not like it now, eventhough I prefer full range drivers.
It is better to keep all these old projects in a back room so you can swap them out for comparison.
Norman
remember that it (b200) has +15db rise from 100hz to 15khz.
And, a flat 8" has limited dispersion past 2khz..........
post #589 (picture)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-ob-gallery-59.html
Paul Hynes talks about it.
Lowther Array Open Baffle?
I have a soft spot for one of my earliest speakers, 6 x 8" rat shacks in each Kustom pa column speaker (long sold). Very loud (ac/dc, bon jovi). But I am worried that if I remade this, my ears have become so much more picky, that I may not like it now, eventhough I prefer full range drivers.
It is better to keep all these old projects in a back room so you can swap them out for comparison.
Norman
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