They were stock. We (a small gathering of 5 guys) compared them to A6peN in mMar-Ken6P, EL70eN in some Mar-Ken12 adapted to Mar-Kel70 tuning (Mar-Kel70wT prototypes), FF85wKeN in uFonkenSET.
The W5 is a beguiling driver and it has good potential. It tended to "smoosh" the low level stuff together, and to use an unfortunate term, sounded a bit plasticy. Dispersion was not all that good. The Mar-Kel had deeper bass.
Allowing for limitations in bass, all the others out-performed them. The uFonkenSET with the pair of FH stealthWoofers turned on certainly left their mark on the 2 new guys.
dave
The W5 is a beguiling driver and it has good potential. It tended to "smoosh" the low level stuff together, and to use an unfortunate term, sounded a bit plasticy. Dispersion was not all that good. The Mar-Kel had deeper bass.
Allowing for limitations in bass, all the others out-performed them. The uFonkenSET with the pair of FH stealthWoofers turned on certainly left their mark on the 2 new guys.
dave
EL70, A10.2 & A12 all fit into a 13 litre miniOnken. The Mar-Ken12T is already trapezoid, A10.2 will have MK10.2wT, and MK10.2T. EL70 will have Mar-Kel70wT, MK70mT, and MK70T.
The ws will share the same shell as MK12T. MK10T & MK70mT will share a shell. I haven't got pictures yet.
It came out of having 3 sets of MK12T cabinets and only 2 sets of drivers (althou Bernie subsequently converted his pair to, leaving a set of orphan A12eNc)
dave
dave
The ws will share the same shell as MK12T. MK10T & MK70mT will share a shell. I haven't got pictures yet.
It came out of having 3 sets of MK12T cabinets and only 2 sets of drivers (althou Bernie subsequently converted his pair to, leaving a set of orphan A12eNc)
dave
dave
Out of curiosity, does a driver like the 1611 require a lot of break-in like the Fostex and MA drivers?
I enjoy the 'battle' between Fostex and TB. They both have similarly priced and performing products. IMO Fostex has a livelier sound while TB has a darker mellower sound. Some folks enjoy their coffee light while others dark. I am curious about the Alpair drivers and wonder how they compare sonically. I just don’t feel compelled to purchase a pair at the moment.
I am curious about this driver. I am new to this forum and I have noticed that Dave is one hell of a contributor. Thanks for your work Dave really, I noticed your website is a very nice resource as well. I want to build a pair of microtowers just because they look so good! However this coming build I want to see what can be done with a single driver. For me it is a toss up between this driver and the alpair 7.3 as well as the alpair 10.2 price of the driver not really an issue because they are all high value pieces.
The pensil 10.2 is calling to me but I'm not giving up my peerless 12" xls with f3 18hz. So given that it will be crossed over to the sub the 10.2 may be overkill. Leaning towards a pensil 7.3 but it's so hard to choose especially with my TB loyalty in play. The MA products are making me drool though. My wife said the pensil 7.3 has better WAF.
Anyone notice the w5-704d? Someone asked about the ferrite version of the 1611 and maybe this is it? The w5-704d is what got me into FR drivers! Built a crappy (particle board with laminate and sharp corners) bipolar TL for a friend and I was disappointed in the top end at first as it dropped off around 10k but after several hundred hours of my friend abusing them they not have a nice response out to 15k I was surprised. Underestimated driver for sure and less than $30 each. They get down to 40hz or so. It was an experiment in cheap FR that went better than expected. My friend thinks they are the best speakers in the world but I assure him they are not!
The pensil 10.2 is calling to me but I'm not giving up my peerless 12" xls with f3 18hz. So given that it will be crossed over to the sub the 10.2 may be overkill. Leaning towards a pensil 7.3 but it's so hard to choose especially with my TB loyalty in play. The MA products are making me drool though. My wife said the pensil 7.3 has better WAF.
Anyone notice the w5-704d? Someone asked about the ferrite version of the 1611 and maybe this is it? The w5-704d is what got me into FR drivers! Built a crappy (particle board with laminate and sharp corners) bipolar TL for a friend and I was disappointed in the top end at first as it dropped off around 10k but after several hundred hours of my friend abusing them they not have a nice response out to 15k I was surprised. Underestimated driver for sure and less than $30 each. They get down to 40hz or so. It was an experiment in cheap FR that went better than expected. My friend thinks they are the best speakers in the world but I assure him they are not!
Have you actually measured the W5-704D's? Factory curve is 7-8 dB down at 10K and 20 dB down at 15Khz. Curve is dropping at 5k. They're a great mid, but not a great choice for FF.
Bob,
Have you auditioned your W5-1611sa yet? Have you formed any opinions and/or run any tests? I am especially interested in how they perform off-axis. Any information will be appreciated.
CabinetMakerRyan,
I have not used the W5-704d full range, but I have read of others doing so and liking the sound. They have good reviews on Parts Express and Zaph Audio, but I believe most have used them in a small two-way box. I have a pair and that is how I intend to use them.
Have you auditioned your W5-1611sa yet? Have you formed any opinions and/or run any tests? I am especially interested in how they perform off-axis. Any information will be appreciated.
CabinetMakerRyan,
I have not used the W5-704d full range, but I have read of others doing so and liking the sound. They have good reviews on Parts Express and Zaph Audio, but I believe most have used them in a small two-way box. I have a pair and that is how I intend to use them.
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Fastbike1,
I was using microphone calibration DSP to force the driver to produce a flat response from 40-14k they need a LOT of eq just too much resistance in the top end, but they do very well if you force it. That is not something a lot of guys on here like to do but it works.
Bob, thanks for the info about the ferrite version of the 1611, Is there a good cabinet design out there for this thing? I know Bob is good with the mathcad worksheets! You probably don't remember Bob but you helped me to design a nice cabinet for some 6.5" peerless drivers ages ago and I built them. Then I built about 3 more pairs for friends. They are still using them! Thanks a lot for that. Nice response to about 40hz with those things.
I was using microphone calibration DSP to force the driver to produce a flat response from 40-14k they need a LOT of eq just too much resistance in the top end, but they do very well if you force it. That is not something a lot of guys on here like to do but it works.
Bob, thanks for the info about the ferrite version of the 1611, Is there a good cabinet design out there for this thing? I know Bob is good with the mathcad worksheets! You probably don't remember Bob but you helped me to design a nice cabinet for some 6.5" peerless drivers ages ago and I built them. Then I built about 3 more pairs for friends. They are still using them! Thanks a lot for that. Nice response to about 40hz with those things.
.
Hithere CMR: You can meet your objective with the Peerless XLS and using the TB 1611 SA (or SAF) in an easy to construct open back enclosure (a FAST set up), then listen to see if that sounds right to you. (TB 1611SA is for me, and biamped with crossover 250 to 300hz). ...... Michael
You have the right idea, for anyone on this forum the 704 is probably not up to par as a full range driver. I like them for my friend because he abuses them and when they break it will be cheap to fix. The do sound great with the microphone calibration but I bet the 1611's would be way better.
j.michael,
That would work well. In fact my center channel that sits right above my sub, is an open baffle with 4 w3-315E drivers in a vertical line. With my calibration system I am taking them down to 150hz and they do it suprisingly well! The problem is that my main left and right speakers are far from the sub, they are already dipole and able to achieve 120hz XO. It's just not enough for me so I'm replacing them with pensil 10.2's soon. Hoping to XO at about 40-50hz with them. I do think the 1611's have great potential for dipole application at least down to 150hz. My electronics do not allow for stereo subs unfortunately.
If anyone wants a picture of the center channel I will post it. Nice mahoganny baffle with recessed tb's.
That would work well. In fact my center channel that sits right above my sub, is an open baffle with 4 w3-315E drivers in a vertical line. With my calibration system I am taking them down to 150hz and they do it suprisingly well! The problem is that my main left and right speakers are far from the sub, they are already dipole and able to achieve 120hz XO. It's just not enough for me so I'm replacing them with pensil 10.2's soon. Hoping to XO at about 40-50hz with them. I do think the 1611's have great potential for dipole application at least down to 150hz. My electronics do not allow for stereo subs unfortunately.
If anyone wants a picture of the center channel I will post it. Nice mahoganny baffle with recessed tb's.
I've not spend much time with the W5-1611sa's as I am working on a MLTL for the Alpair 10.2 (almost done!). I can say two things, though.
1. The TB's have a nice sound, very poly as apposed to the metal A10's
2. I don't think that this TB is a candidate for a MLTL. I will investigate other cabinets when I get the time,
Bob
1. The TB's have a nice sound, very poly as apposed to the metal A10's
2. I don't think that this TB is a candidate for a MLTL. I will investigate other cabinets when I get the time,
Bob
This is my own design. Totally different design philosophy than Scott's. They are in the paint shop as we speak, I'll have definitive measurements in ~ a week. Here are the Pensil 10.2 and my M10-A10 in raw plywood. The M10-A10 is on the left.
Bob
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