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Old 21st November 2011, 06:49 PM   #11
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Ooh that'll look nice in that finish. Although I do really like the light look and with a nice satin finish could look plenty appealing, depending on what's already in the room.

I got my black screws from Parts Express but I ordered them when I ordered a bunch of other stuff so it wasn't a big deal. HD didn't have any black screws? Do you have Fastenal up there? They have them and are usually all over the place.

Scott

BTW I love the art over the fireplace. Danish Modern design?

Last edited by skeeter99; 21st November 2011 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 21st November 2011, 09:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter99 View Post
Ooh that'll look nice in that finish. Although I do really like the light look and with a nice satin finish could look plenty appealing, depending on what's already in the room.

I got my black screws from Parts Express but I ordered them when I ordered a bunch of other stuff so it wasn't a big deal. HD didn't have any black screws? Do you have Fastenal up there? They have them and are usually all over the place.

Scott

BTW I love the art over the fireplace. Danish Modern design?
I like the natural colour of the wood as well, but everything in our bedroom is black iron and dark wood...

I am not sure if we have Fastenal or not, I'll have to check. There are a couple other hardware stores and lumber stores I can check, and a surplus electronics type store as well. If not, I'll just include a bunch in my next PE order.

I am not sure about the origin of the art piece. It was on sale ($30 marked down from over $120) at Pier One Imports because it had a bunch of paint scratched off one of the circles (a hack saw fixed that problem ). We love it too
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Old 21st November 2011, 09:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
I like the natural colour of the wood as well, but everything in our bedroom is black iron and dark wood...

I am not sure if we have Fastenal or not, I'll have to check. There are a couple other hardware stores and lumber stores I can check, and a surplus electronics type store as well. If not, I'll just include a bunch in my next PE order.

I am not sure about the origin of the art piece. It was on sale ($30 marked down from over $120) at Pier One Imports because it had a bunch of paint scratched off one of the circles (a hack saw fixed that problem ). We love it too
Oh if those are the colors you already have then the darker would definitely look better.

That's a fantastic deal on that piece! Sure looks mid-century, very cool.

There's a Fastenal in your city:

Store Code: BCKAM
Hours: Monday - Friday 7:00am - 5:00pm
Phone: (250) 314-0018
Fax: (250) 314-0218

1365A Dalhousie Drive
Kamloops, BC V2C 5P6

They usually stock lots of stuff locally or can get it pretty quick. Very reasonably priced too. They cater mainly to businesses/contractors/etc but they'll sell to individuals as well.

Scott
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Old 21st November 2011, 09:33 PM   #14
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default and further thoughts...

chris: perhaps, it depends if kids are in play (as in the domicile) or not

cogitech: I'm no expert, but try tuning a 1/2 octave higher (as Dave suggested that the tuning is too low). As I don't have any box programs on my iMac, I can't do it myself, but if the resonance is at or around 75Hz, then I would try slightly above that, say maybe even 85Hz...

regarding the volume of the enclosures, I'd stick with a proven design, and make the enclosure contained within the envelope of a "micro-Tower" or similar. Fill the rest with crushed glass or sterile sand if you like.
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Old 21st November 2011, 09:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter99 View Post
Oh if those are the colors you already have then the darker would definitely look better.

That's a fantastic deal on that piece! Sure looks mid-century, very cool.

There's a Fastenal in your city:

Store Code: BCKAM
Hours: Monday - Friday 7:00am - 5:00pm
Phone: (250) 314-0018
Fax: (250) 314-0218

1365A Dalhousie Drive
Kamloops, BC V2C 5P6

They usually stock lots of stuff locally or can get it pretty quick. Very reasonably priced too. They cater mainly to businesses/contractors/etc but they'll sell to individuals as well.

Scott
Excellent. You saved me some googling. Thanks! I will check them out for sure.
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Old 21st November 2011, 09:53 PM   #16
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That drivers Qts is way to high for it to be 'happy' in a ported box but there are things you can do to optimise its performance.

Usually you don't need or don't want to heavily stuff reflex boxes, but in this case however it will work significantly to your advantage by lowering the large peak introduced by the port. As Dave says the lower tuning frequency is a little too low, but given the driver and your simulation you didn't have much choice.

This driver will produce next to no bass when put into a sealed cabinet, which is really what its Qts would make it better suited to. Indeed with a Qts that high, it'd be well at home on an open baffle or in a situation where the rear of the driver has no box around it, such as the parcel shelf behind some cars backseats. Of course it would need crossing to a bass driver at something like 300hz.

You can however faff about and get a decent response out of it in a ported enclosure and this could be somewhat how TB intend you to use it.

Given your ~13 box, if you stuff it full, tuning it to around 80hz will give you something like this...

Click the image to open in full size.

...which considering you've probably already stuffed your box quite a bit, probably isn't too far away from what you're using now, albeit with a high tuning frequency.

It is however really suited to a smaller box. If you whack it into a 4l box, again heavily stuffed, and tune to around 85 hz you get this...

Click the image to open in full size.

You can see however, that even with 1 watt/2.83volts, that the drivers xmax is exceeded in the blink of an eye, the smaller box does help to control this a little bit more. Of course you get lower extension in the bigger box but the maximum SPL is lower.

Of course none of this is taking into account any influence that your really tall and narrow cabinet could be having, although I would miagine that any TL action would be negated somewhat by the position of the port. Where is your port located?
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Old 21st November 2011, 10:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook View Post

cogitech: I'm no expert, but try tuning a 1/2 octave higher (as Dave suggested that the tuning is too low). As I don't have any box programs on my iMac, I can't do it myself, but if the resonance is at or around 75Hz, then I would try slightly above that, say maybe even 85Hz...

regarding the volume of the enclosures, I'd stick with a proven design, and make the enclosure contained within the envelope of a "micro-Tower" or similar. Fill the rest with crushed glass or sterile sand if you like.
Hi Stew,

The boxes are glued up solid, so no changes can be made. This is not the end of the world because I am very pleased with the way they sound. But just out of curiousity, what is so objectionable about the box and tuning that is shown on page 1? There's a bit of a wave there, but it only deviates a dB or two in either direction and then hits an F3 of 46hz. I think this is pretty good for a driver with an Fs of 106hz. I think one thing to consider is the incredibly high Qts of these drivers. As Bjorn states in his TABAQ PDF:

"The Tang Band drivers have a relatively high Fs and very high Qts. The high Qts means the roll off is more gentle than a low Qts driver, and it is therefore possible to design a quarter wave with useful output well below Fs."

Granted, Bjorn was designing a true Quarter Wave TL from the ground up, and I was just throwing together a cheap, easy BR for sh!ts n' giggles, but I think the Qts of 0.85 helps this oversized, low-tuned BR sound better than it really should. I suspect that the tall, thin design leads to some accidental QW and/or TL action (confirmed by Dave) which I admittedly don't understand.

Perhaps someone out there with King's worksheets (and knowledge of how to use them) could show me just what I have done here.
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Old 21st November 2011, 10:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
That drivers Qts is way to high for it to be 'happy' in a ported box but there are things you can do to optimise its performance.

Usually you don't need or don't want to heavily stuff reflex boxes, but in this case however it will work significantly to your advantage by lowering the large peak introduced by the port. As Dave says the lower tuning frequency is a little too low, but given the driver and your simulation you didn't have much choice.

This driver will produce next to no bass when put into a sealed cabinet, which is really what its Qts would make it better suited to. Indeed with a Qts that high, it'd be well at home on an open baffle or in a situation where the rear of the driver has no box around it, such as the parcel shelf behind some cars backseats. Of course it would need crossing to a bass driver at something like 300hz.

You can however faff about and get a decent response out of it in a ported enclosure and this could be somewhat how TB intend you to use it.

Given your ~13 box, if you stuff it full, tuning it to around 80hz will give you something like this...

Click the image to open in full size.

...which considering you've probably already stuffed your box quite a bit, probably isn't too far away from what you're using now, albeit with a high tuning frequency.

It is however really suited to a smaller box. If you whack it into a 4l box, again heavily stuffed, and tune to around 85 hz you get this...

Click the image to open in full size.

You can see however, that even with 1 watt/2.83volts, that the drivers xmax is exceeded in the blink of an eye, the smaller box does help to control this a little bit more. Of course you get lower extension in the bigger box but the maximum SPL is lower.

Of course none of this is taking into account any influence that your really tall and narrow cabinet could be having, although I would miagine that any TL action would be negated somewhat by the position of the port. Where is your port located?
Hello again 5th!

The boxes are not completely stuffed, but very heavily so. I lined all interior surfaces except for the front panel and one side with 2" fibreglass home insulation. Initial testing with less insulation resulted in anemic bass response, so I just kept lining more and more sq. inches until I had the sound I wanted. The result is that there is as much insulation as there is air in the enclosure.

I suspect there must be some TL action happening here, as accidental as it is, because I suspect these sound far better than you guys are imagining.

I should say that I have pulled my 156hz and 220hz sliders down about 2.5dB and pushed my 77hz slider up about 3dB. At moderate SPL (73dB-ish) I can hear/feel everything from cymbals to the lowest notes on a 4-string bass.

The port is located approximately 4 or 5 inches from the base plate (IIRC).

Note: I am certain that I have driven these little buggers beyond Xmax a few times already, but in their final home (the bedroom or office) they will never come close to that.

Last edited by cogitech; 21st November 2011 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 21st November 2011, 10:25 PM   #19
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This is all very cool to see btw, I'm kicking around picking up a few sets of these to play around with. At the buyout price its so cheap to experiment
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Old 21st November 2011, 10:32 PM   #20
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I don't think anyone is trying to say that they sound bad, just that there might be better ways of using the driver.

As it is impossible to simulate any TL loading with standard vented box designers, if you could get something sorted out so that you could measure the impedance of the loudspeakers, it would assist greatly in pinpointing what tuning frequency you've actually arrived at.
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