I built a couple of BIB's for my never used Radio Shack 40-1354A speakers two weeks ago to the Terry Cain specs of 70 inches tall, 5.5 inches wide and 12.5 inches deep inside dimensions. Outside 7 inches wide and 14 inches deep. No supra baffle.
I listened to them for about a week, sounded real good, couldn't believe the bass out of these, they are close to the corners of my room and my room is small 12 feet by 13 feet.
Decided I liked them so well that I ordered a set of Fostex F120A's from Madisound and had them shipped in 2 day delivery.
Built a 13.75 inch round supra baffle for them as the hole was too big for the F120A's.
When I first fired them up sounded tinny and hollow and could hear the coloration but in about 4 hours started settling down. Have about 20 hours on them and they are starting to sound really good. The bass is solid down to 40 Hz, stronger at 40 Hz then at 80 Hz and very little bass at 31.5 Hz. Guessing fairly strong at 35 Hz. This is with a Sterophile test CD. Will have to bring in the tone generator and radio shack sound meter to see how low it really goes.
Made the cabinets out of 4 X 8 birch (from Home Depot) with I believe 6 plys and plenty of voids, but hear no buzzing or looseness. Cut the sides 45 degrees and glued them together using straps to hold them together until dry, 6 per cabinet. left the bottom so I could remove it if I had to. Stuffed the top above the drivers with Dacron tight and put one 5.5 by 14 inch piece of carpet under-pad felt on back panel right below speaker and another 5.5 by 14 at bottom of cabinet. Stained the cabinets with one coat of Golden Oak and then one coat of Walnut and then one coat of Flat Polyurethane clear coat.
This was just a throw together cabinet to test the RS 40-1354A's with and turned out so good I had to try a better set of speakers because I liked the Radio Shacks so well.
Its funny I was setting in my stereo room listening to The Moody Blues the singles+ CD and was dozing off at about 10:50 pm Saturday night when I felt a shaking of my Lazy Boy and looked over to see who was shaking me (could only be my wife), but nobody there. Kinda spooked me. Then my wife came in from her craft room and asked me if I felt the shake. We live in south Wichita, Kansas and we felt the earthquake from Oklahoma. My wife thought if he has that music up so loud that he is shaking the house I am going to have a talk with him.
I use Elvis 30 hits CD to test speakers with and also Best of Jim Reeves 3 set CD, both to test for voice purity. These F120A's and my old JBL L14A transmission line woofers with JBL M151 mid bass with JBL L175 drivers on Altec 511 horns for mid range are the only speakers that can reproduce these voices realistically That I have had.
So far I am more than happy. And I hear no slowness in bass or a lag in sound in general. Maybe I would if they were in bass reflex enclosures.
Kenny
I listened to them for about a week, sounded real good, couldn't believe the bass out of these, they are close to the corners of my room and my room is small 12 feet by 13 feet.
Decided I liked them so well that I ordered a set of Fostex F120A's from Madisound and had them shipped in 2 day delivery.
Built a 13.75 inch round supra baffle for them as the hole was too big for the F120A's.
When I first fired them up sounded tinny and hollow and could hear the coloration but in about 4 hours started settling down. Have about 20 hours on them and they are starting to sound really good. The bass is solid down to 40 Hz, stronger at 40 Hz then at 80 Hz and very little bass at 31.5 Hz. Guessing fairly strong at 35 Hz. This is with a Sterophile test CD. Will have to bring in the tone generator and radio shack sound meter to see how low it really goes.
Made the cabinets out of 4 X 8 birch (from Home Depot) with I believe 6 plys and plenty of voids, but hear no buzzing or looseness. Cut the sides 45 degrees and glued them together using straps to hold them together until dry, 6 per cabinet. left the bottom so I could remove it if I had to. Stuffed the top above the drivers with Dacron tight and put one 5.5 by 14 inch piece of carpet under-pad felt on back panel right below speaker and another 5.5 by 14 at bottom of cabinet. Stained the cabinets with one coat of Golden Oak and then one coat of Walnut and then one coat of Flat Polyurethane clear coat.
This was just a throw together cabinet to test the RS 40-1354A's with and turned out so good I had to try a better set of speakers because I liked the Radio Shacks so well.
Its funny I was setting in my stereo room listening to The Moody Blues the singles+ CD and was dozing off at about 10:50 pm Saturday night when I felt a shaking of my Lazy Boy and looked over to see who was shaking me (could only be my wife), but nobody there. Kinda spooked me. Then my wife came in from her craft room and asked me if I felt the shake. We live in south Wichita, Kansas and we felt the earthquake from Oklahoma. My wife thought if he has that music up so loud that he is shaking the house I am going to have a talk with him.
I use Elvis 30 hits CD to test speakers with and also Best of Jim Reeves 3 set CD, both to test for voice purity. These F120A's and my old JBL L14A transmission line woofers with JBL M151 mid bass with JBL L175 drivers on Altec 511 horns for mid range are the only speakers that can reproduce these voices realistically That I have had.
So far I am more than happy. And I hear no slowness in bass or a lag in sound in general. Maybe I would if they were in bass reflex enclosures.
Kenny
BIB, that must be Big is Better.
I've been on a roll lately with 5" Fostex designs, and have a couple of cabinet ideas, but if you want the ultimate cabinet, you're going to want to talk the Pros. about Fonkens.
In the mean time, pick up a sheet of 3/4" MDF at HD. I would build the BR and the DBR, with the plans came with them. One $30 sheet will build both sets (I think).
The bass goes pretty darn low with FX120s, you can get lower than 30hz I'm sure.
I've been on a roll lately with 5" Fostex designs, and have a couple of cabinet ideas, but if you want the ultimate cabinet, you're going to want to talk the Pros. about Fonkens.
In the mean time, pick up a sheet of 3/4" MDF at HD. I would build the BR and the DBR, with the plans came with them. One $30 sheet will build both sets (I think).
The bass goes pretty darn low with FX120s, you can get lower than 30hz I'm sure.
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That would be cool! 30Hz with a 5 inch driver. I have 3 sheets of 13 ply Baltic Birch and would use it. The reason I used the 4 X 8 is the 13 ply is 5 X 5 foot. I have built cabinets with MDF and it isn't too hard to work with.
I have looked into the Fonkens and BR and DBR, but the BIB's peaked my interest.
The mid range and lows are blowing me away and the highs are not bad, not great but not bad. The extreme lows are MIA.
It's like everybody says, it's hard to adjust your mind to the fact that a 5 inch full range driver can get that much overall sound. And it is plenty loud enough in my room. Of course in a bigger room it would probably struggle.
I could hear the cone cry in the 1354 driver, but if you kept the volume down it sounded really good. I bought 18 of these drivers when they had them on sale. I put 14 in my home theater in the walls in .5 cu ft boxes. I just blocked off .5 cu ft between the studs and sealed up with caulking and stuffed with Dracon. I lined the whole room including the ceiling with OSB 1/2 inch 4 x 8 sheets then put sheet rock over the OSB. I put 4 1354's in for center, one each for left and right front, one each for left and right side and one each for left and right rear. Then I took 4 and put them in on the rear wall and tied them in for center so I could turn down the volume and still hear the center voice. I thought it would mess up the balance but I like it, you can turn down the sound and hear the speech and it makes my wife happy as it won't blast you out of the room. The 1354's just seem to be made for home theater. I then put in 2 air vents in the floor and put 2 sub woofers in the crawl space with cabinets and the woofers up against the vents. That way I have no speaker cabinets in the room. The room is 16 X 15 foot.
I was really looking into Lowther DX3's but decided to give the F120A's a try. So far I am happy with the results.
Mater of fact, working on cabinets today, should have them done in a couple of hours. I pulled out the industrial use only lacquer. Don't try that at home.......
I built 1 Fostex BR box so I could test it against a slightly larger pair - with a bigger port - I all ready know the answer though, the Fostex design BR box looks good, but it's pretty wimpy.
I was going to say, at some point, put the speakers in the walls and ceilings, but that sounds like what you have done.
I built 1 Fostex BR box so I could test it against a slightly larger pair - with a bigger port - I all ready know the answer though, the Fostex design BR box looks good, but it's pretty wimpy.
I was going to say, at some point, put the speakers in the walls and ceilings, but that sounds like what you have done.
FF125wks
Not finished ~ but had to listen...they are about the same.
However:
The oak ones (left) have a hint of extra bass and sound a bit more "full".
I need to recess/flush the drivers, I made a router guide (It's a tricky shape), but may ask my buddy with the CNC router to make a guide.
The speakers have about 30 hours on them.
Not finished ~ but had to listen...they are about the same.
However:
The oak ones (left) have a hint of extra bass and sound a bit more "full".
I need to recess/flush the drivers, I made a router guide (It's a tricky shape), but may ask my buddy with the CNC router to make a guide.
The speakers have about 30 hours on them.
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What sort of amp are you using on the F120A's? Both MJK & I have found that direct coupled SS amps work very poorly with these drivers. The highs are just awful.
With my old Sansui receivers which have cap. coupled output, they sound pretty good. Best results have been with tubes.
Cheers, Jim
With my old Sansui receivers which have cap. coupled output, they sound pretty good. Best results have been with tubes.
Cheers, Jim
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Don't look at the baffles too closely as it was sprinkling outside and I cut them outside so I didn't have to move the cars out of the garage, so I was in a hurry. Also you may be wondering why I used a wood plate for the terminals. I glued up the cabinets and found out I put one of the dividers in backwards so I had to cut a new speaker hole in one of the cabinets. LOL! I really felt dumb when I found out I did that. I am going to build new baffles and terminal plates and also probably veneer the cabinets as I am really happy with the sound. Like I said I just was experimenting and didn't want to spend a lot of time and money on these if they sounded bad. Been there done that many of times. And one of the terminal plates are stained the other one isn't. The one stained was the one I experimented with to see what the stain would look like.
I use a Doge 6 tube CD player with 2 Siemens ECC801S's and 4 GE JAN 5751s, Doge 8 tube preamplifier with 4 Siemens ECC801S's and 4 Telefunken 12AX7 smooth plates (for phono). And a Audioromy FU13 amplifier with 2 Amperex PQ 6922s, 2 GE 6V6 GT black plates and 2 FU13s. I also have a Empire 598III turntable with Dynavector DV20H cartridge.
Kenny,
With all those drivers and wood you have on hand, you might want to try some different boxes.
Pic one is a double tall DBR, I didn't end up using the bottom section, but may someday. When they are hooked up, it sounds like a 10" subwoofer.
If you do build a DBR, flip the small port "L" upside down and put the bottom port on the back. Might want to line the small top chamber with Dynamat(.com) or something. Keep your eyes open for Ultra Touch insulation (for fill).
Of course you want to build a Onken set, I didn't think they were that difficult once I studied the plans. [not that mine are finished quality, but did build them in a day]
With all those drivers and wood you have on hand, you might want to try some different boxes.
Pic one is a double tall DBR, I didn't end up using the bottom section, but may someday. When they are hooked up, it sounds like a 10" subwoofer.
If you do build a DBR, flip the small port "L" upside down and put the bottom port on the back. Might want to line the small top chamber with Dynamat(.com) or something. Keep your eyes open for Ultra Touch insulation (for fill).
Of course you want to build a Onken set, I didn't think they were that difficult once I studied the plans. [not that mine are finished quality, but did build them in a day]
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I have been changing out amps. Took the Audioromy 838A FU13 out and put in a Magnavox 9302 6BQ5 push pull. Sounds nice, not as much bass as the Audioromy but sounds good, less forward.
Then put in a Magnavox 8802 6V6 push pull, less bass output then the Audioromy or 6BQ5 and highs not as pronounced. Mids not as forward as the Audioromy but not any more reduced then the 6BQ5. What I did notice is the bass, mids and highs or treble more balanced together. And the space or ambiance much better. Real nice to listen to with the F120A BIB's.
The Audioromy is about 18W or so, Magnavox 6BQ5 12W or so and the Magnavox 6V6 about 10W.
F120A's breaking in real nice, about 40 hours on them, beginning to settle in and sound nice and balanced, not shrill and with good control.
Wish I had a single ended direct heated triode amp to try with enough power to drive the F120A's but I think they need at least 10W's or so. I had a little singled ended Magnavox 6BQ5 pentode amp and it sounded good but was like only 3.5W and would run out of steam with anything but a high efficiency speaker, but boy did it sound good on my Altec 511B horns with JBL 175 drivers.
So far the F120A's with the 6V6 PP amp is the best combo I have tried.
Then put in a Magnavox 8802 6V6 push pull, less bass output then the Audioromy or 6BQ5 and highs not as pronounced. Mids not as forward as the Audioromy but not any more reduced then the 6BQ5. What I did notice is the bass, mids and highs or treble more balanced together. And the space or ambiance much better. Real nice to listen to with the F120A BIB's.
The Audioromy is about 18W or so, Magnavox 6BQ5 12W or so and the Magnavox 6V6 about 10W.
F120A's breaking in real nice, about 40 hours on them, beginning to settle in and sound nice and balanced, not shrill and with good control.
Wish I had a single ended direct heated triode amp to try with enough power to drive the F120A's but I think they need at least 10W's or so. I had a little singled ended Magnavox 6BQ5 pentode amp and it sounded good but was like only 3.5W and would run out of steam with anything but a high efficiency speaker, but boy did it sound good on my Altec 511B horns with JBL 175 drivers.
So far the F120A's with the 6V6 PP amp is the best combo I have tried.
I just bought a APPJ PA0901 A (Miniwatt N3) and have been running the BIB's with F120A's. Out of the box with the tubes that came with it the amp sounds good.
I started rolling tubes in it to see what I could come up with. I first changed out the 6bq5's (EL84's). Put in a pair of Sylvania Balwin black plates stamped 312-426. Sound was brighter than with 6N4 tubes that were in it from the factory. I have a quad of matched GE grey oval plate 188-5's coming but don't think they will sound any better than the Sylvania's.
I next started rolling 12ax7's into the amp. First was Telefunken smooth plates, sounds good and lush with good imaging, good vibrato, boomy bass, sound is like old tube sound.
Next Telefunken ribbed plates sounds good and lush with pinpoint imaging, good bass and treble, better bass than smoothplates.
Amperex bugle boys good airy sound, pinpoint imaging, good vibrato, voices sound a little dark more like old tube sound.
Mullard sound good but a little flat on voices, more laid back. can hear more distortion, didn't care for them. But not too bad.
Tungsram loud and clear and clean with less lushness, pinpoint imaging. sounds like good solid state transistors. Good bass.
Sylvania JAN 5751 sounds nice and clean with pinpoint imaging. Not as loud as 12ax7's but almost. Good vibrato, lush sound, a little boomy in the bass.
RCA 12AX7 tall black plates rectangle getter. Good balanced sound, pinpoint imaging. Bass not boomy, can hear different voice styles.
I could live with the factory tubes or any of the tubes for that matter but the best so far is the RCA tall black plate.
I didn't notice a lot of difference in the highs or treble of any of these tubes, may be because of the F120A rolls off the treble and if I had a tweeter could hear more differences.
Now these tubes with this amp with these speakers in these cabinets is what I heard, maybe tomorrow I would roll these tubes in and hear a completely different sound, I don't know. But for right now I like the RCA best. Next would be the Amperex Bugle boy, then the Sylvania 5751, then the Tungsram.
The little amp powered these speakers just fine in my small room. Probably would run out of steam in a bigger room just like the speakers would. But for a good sound in a small room they get the job done. And low level listening is really good, it doesn't have to be turned up to get all of the details like a lot of speakers do.
I started rolling tubes in it to see what I could come up with. I first changed out the 6bq5's (EL84's). Put in a pair of Sylvania Balwin black plates stamped 312-426. Sound was brighter than with 6N4 tubes that were in it from the factory. I have a quad of matched GE grey oval plate 188-5's coming but don't think they will sound any better than the Sylvania's.
I next started rolling 12ax7's into the amp. First was Telefunken smooth plates, sounds good and lush with good imaging, good vibrato, boomy bass, sound is like old tube sound.
Next Telefunken ribbed plates sounds good and lush with pinpoint imaging, good bass and treble, better bass than smoothplates.
Amperex bugle boys good airy sound, pinpoint imaging, good vibrato, voices sound a little dark more like old tube sound.
Mullard sound good but a little flat on voices, more laid back. can hear more distortion, didn't care for them. But not too bad.
Tungsram loud and clear and clean with less lushness, pinpoint imaging. sounds like good solid state transistors. Good bass.
Sylvania JAN 5751 sounds nice and clean with pinpoint imaging. Not as loud as 12ax7's but almost. Good vibrato, lush sound, a little boomy in the bass.
RCA 12AX7 tall black plates rectangle getter. Good balanced sound, pinpoint imaging. Bass not boomy, can hear different voice styles.
I could live with the factory tubes or any of the tubes for that matter but the best so far is the RCA tall black plate.
I didn't notice a lot of difference in the highs or treble of any of these tubes, may be because of the F120A rolls off the treble and if I had a tweeter could hear more differences.
Now these tubes with this amp with these speakers in these cabinets is what I heard, maybe tomorrow I would roll these tubes in and hear a completely different sound, I don't know. But for right now I like the RCA best. Next would be the Amperex Bugle boy, then the Sylvania 5751, then the Tungsram.
The little amp powered these speakers just fine in my small room. Probably would run out of steam in a bigger room just like the speakers would. But for a good sound in a small room they get the job done. And low level listening is really good, it doesn't have to be turned up to get all of the details like a lot of speakers do.
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