Shopping for tools: Biscuit Joiner instead of dowel jig?

[karmik]

Due to my recent fiasco with "lent" working space and tools, i'm currently shopping for power tools in order to start again building as soon as possible.

So far i settled on:

• Power Router: Bosch POF 1200 AE
• Orbital Sander: Bosch PSS 250 AE
• Electronic Screwdriver/Drill: Bosch PSR 9,6 (which would come free of charge as it's my dad's spare) OR
  • Makita BHP343RH - 14,4v, Li batteries
• PSB 500 RE - For the more demanding drill works, i already own the previous generation of this unit.

I'd love feedback on these items. I can't really spend 600 euros on a good power router like my dad's Metabo so i'll settle for the Bosch which comes at 100 euros. If you can suggest other brands similarly priced and better built i'd love to hear about them.

To give you an idea of what kind of builds i want to venture in next:

• Half-Chili Chang for Fostex FE167.
• µFonken for my FF85-WK.

Since there are some 30° cuts (the uFonken front panel comes to mind), i guess i will need some kind of Circular Saw? Not a table mounted one as i can't afford it.

Main cuts will be done at my local DIY shop that cuts any kind of plywood for free as long as they are square cuts. I will just have to assemble, glue, sand and finish.

My main question is this tho:

So far i used a Wolfcraft Universal Doweling Jig with mixed results. I can get *acceptable* (not good by far) results with exhausting effort , constantly double checking alignment and such.

I recently read about a different system called "biscuit joinery". I now know what it's about but since i've never used it and i've never seen it used, i wonder if it's suitable for cabinet building? Are the cabinets as solid as with flute dowels?. I'm worried about solidity, my FE167 BR enclosure survived falling from a table onto the floor with no structural problems. I like that kind of durability.

If it's a blatant improvement in effort and time spent, i'm willing to spend the extra euros to get a biscuit cutter instead of the aforementioned jig (which is not cheap anyway).

Any toughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

[evanc]

Karmic, I would look into a random orbital sander instead of the model your thinking of. For joining cabinet parts together I find a biscuit easier then a dowel. If you have accurate cuts on your plywood you will not have to worry about strength. That brings me to the saw. I don't feel that I could get good angled cuts with a hand held circular saw. My local building goods store will also cut sheet goods, but there is little accuracy or precision in there cuts. There must be a local Diyer who has equipment and would be willing to make a couple of cuts....

[jimbro]

Biscuits by a wide margin IMO. Once you learn how to use them, they're much faster, not nearly as finicky about alignment and just as strong or stronger than dowels. More expensive though especially Lamello. My Porter Cable is nice and DeWalt is supposed to be good too.

[brucegseidner]

I used to like biscuits but with todays glue and a bit of blue masking tape I have not seen much point in going to the bother. But then I have collected a lot of clamps over the years.

What I have really enjoyed using is the Kreg pocket hole jig and the screws and clamps that come with the kit. There are other pocket hole jigs out there as well but the Kreg is so well made and reasonably priced that I have stayed with it.

If my boxes were going to double as engine stands then I might consider investing in a biscuit joiner. But with a little planning all the pocket holes can be made in the inside of the box. The holes can be filled with wood dowels but I like Bondo auto body epoxy. If you need to make a pocket hole that will show then it is easy to match wood or use contrasting wood to plug the hole and it is invisible or stylish contrast, your choice.

[Conrad Hoffman]

Seems like overkill. Butt joints with modern glues like Titebond III using clamps will be nearly indestructible. You need clamps anyway. For 30 degree cuts just use the router with an appropriate angled bit and a guide fence.

[TerryO]

The biscuits will allow you to align things a bit, while you tighten your clamps.

Most woodworking experts seem to agree that dowels (and Biscuits) are primarily alignment aids and don't add any appreciable strength to the joint, which is the job of the glue. Modern glues, when used correctly, are stronger than the wood itself

Best Regards,
TerryO

[Michael Chua]

I love my Makita Biscuit Joiner and my DeWalt Router. It's like air-conditioning. Once you have it, you can't do without it. Same for the table saw. It'll make building your speakers more enjoyable.

[chrisb]

one more voice to the chorus in favor of biscuits - that is it to say in a choice between the two - but I think you'd be better off with a decent 1.5HP router - with a few decent bits, straight-edges and clamps you could accomplish a much wider range of joinery than the rather restricted scope of the biscuit or dowel joiner

I have a Porter Cable biscuit joiner, and could go probably 6 months without touching it, but my routers ( actually 3 including the lighter duty laminate trimmers) and RO sander will get used almost every day I'm in the shop.

[digits]

I'd take a lock mitre router bit over either...

[karmik]

Wow, many replies. Lots of fantastic ideas here.

Originally Posted by evanc

Karmic, I would look into a random orbital sander instead of the model your thinking of.

There must be a local Diyer who has equipment and would be willing to make a couple of cuts....

A Random Orbital Sander looks good too, but i have one doubt: Can you use it with normal rolls of sand paper? Because my experience is that pre-cut velcro backed sand paper is expensive and comes in pointless grits. I want to use good quality sand paper and in the grits i decide.

Originally Posted by brucegseidner

I used to like biscuits but with todays glue and a bit of blue masking tape I have not seen much point in going to the bother. But then I have collected a lot of clamps over the years.

This seems the general feeling of the "pros". I'm a clumsy noobie tho so i gotta find something to compensate me being a clutz. I do love clamps tho and i plan to get loads :P.

Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman

Seems like overkill. Butt joints with modern glues like Titebond III using clamps will be nearly indestructible. You need clamps anyway. For 30 degree cuts just use the router with an appropriate angled bit and a guide fence.

That's what i thought too but you never know. Italian DIYers seem to like this glue: Saratoga Axe Master - Polyurethane adhesive, fast-acting, for wood constructions, with exceptional resistance to water (classified D4).

Currently googling the Titebond III and see if i can source it in Italy.

Originally Posted by TerryO

The biscuits will allow you to align things a bit, while you tighten your clamps.

Most woodworking experts seem to agree that dowels (and Biscuits) are primarily alignment aids and don't add any appreciable strength to the joint, which is the job of the glue. Modern glues, when used correctly, are stronger than the wood itself

Best Regards,
TerryO

I think i still need alignment aids.

Originally Posted by Michael Chua

I love my Makita Biscuit Joiner and my DeWalt Router. It's like air-conditioning. Once you have it, you can't do without it. Same for the table saw. It'll make building your speakers more enjoyable.

I really don't have the space nor the money for a table saw :/

Originally Posted by chrisb

one more voice to the chorus in favor of sbiscuits - that is it to say in a choice between the two - but I think you'd be better off with a decent 1.5HP router - with a few decent bits, straight-edges and clamps you could accomplish a much wider range of joinery than the rather restricted scope of the biscuit or dowel joiner

I have a Porter Cable biscuit joiner, and could go probably 6 months without touching it, but my routers ( actually 3 including the lighter duty laminate trimmers) and RO sander will get used almost every day I'm in the shop.

If you were not a professional, but someone that plans to go through a couple of builds a year, in a tight place, how much would you spend in a router? I can go the extra-mile for the router as i realize it's one of the most important tools in a shop, but my budget is 150€ tops for it.

Originally Posted by digits

I'd take a lock mitre router bit over either...

Isn't it a bitch to align? :P