hello all , first post so be gentle with me 
i've been reading through and enjoying many of the threads on here over the last few months and would now like to build my own 5.1 surround set up .
i've neither the experience or knowledge to design my own enclosures , so would like to use a proven design and am hoping that somebody could point me in the right direction for what would best suit my needs please .
the drivers i'm considering are either the mark audio chr70 or css fr125sr and with my rather tight budget i can do either two chr70 or a single fr125sr per enclosure so quite a few designs to choose from apart from centres .
my room is approx 18'x18' and i'm quite limited on where i can position the speakers . all four surrounds would have to be pretty close into the corners due to positioning of the projector screen and furniture , so maybe 1ft out from the walls at most . i like the look of the lotus 2 as well as the micro towers and they seem to quite well regarded from what i've read . but i'm struggling to find a design for a twin chr70 for the centre , i presume a lotus 2 laid horizontal is a no no ?
so what designs would you recommend me to build and any ideas for a centre ?
thanks in advance for any help
steve
i've been reading through and enjoying many of the threads on here over the last few months and would now like to build my own 5.1 surround set up .i've neither the experience or knowledge to design my own enclosures , so would like to use a proven design and am hoping that somebody could point me in the right direction for what would best suit my needs please .
the drivers i'm considering are either the mark audio chr70 or css fr125sr and with my rather tight budget i can do either two chr70 or a single fr125sr per enclosure so quite a few designs to choose from apart from centres .
my room is approx 18'x18' and i'm quite limited on where i can position the speakers . all four surrounds would have to be pretty close into the corners due to positioning of the projector screen and furniture , so maybe 1ft out from the walls at most . i like the look of the lotus 2 as well as the micro towers and they seem to quite well regarded from what i've read . but i'm struggling to find a design for a twin chr70 for the centre , i presume a lotus 2 laid horizontal is a no no ?
so what designs would you recommend me to build and any ideas for a centre ?
thanks in advance for any help
steve
Go with Bass Reflex. I'm not familiar with those drivers but usually there is at least one reference design suggested by the manufacturer. If the size is appropriate you could consider those?
Also, take into consideration different design for centers , satellites and subwoofer.
I'm a newbie as well here and i can say the welcome i received was warm, i hope yours will be as well
Are you gonna use a stand for your setup or will the speakers sit on top of something else? (furniture, etc)
Best regards and good luck with your build
Also, take into consideration different design for centers , satellites and subwoofer.
I'm a newbie as well here and i can say the welcome i received was warm, i hope yours will be as well
Are you gonna use a stand for your setup or will the speakers sit on top of something else? (furniture, etc)
Best regards and good luck with your build
Go with Bass Reflex. I'm not familiar with those drivers but usually there is at least one reference design suggested by the manufacturer. If the size is appropriate you could consider those?
Also, take into consideration different design for centers , satellites and subwoofer.
I'm a newbie as well here and i can say the welcome i received was warm, i hope yours will be as well
Are you gonna use a stand for your setup or will the speakers sit on top of something else? (furniture, etc)
Best regards and good luck with your build
I am familiar with the cited drivers, and would suggest that Bass Reflex ( or any moderately damped vented enclosure) for the CSS FR or WR125 would not be the best way to go unless crossed over much higher than it sounds like Steve would be running these in 5.1 set up.
At excursion limit the FR/WR125 exhibit a very disconcerting and potentially damaging habit of hitting the back plate and emitting a flatulant noise.
For a small home cinema setup, I'd suggest the CHR70 - Pensil enclosure for L&R and very likely a single for center would be adequate.
The Mark Audio drivers do need gentle break-in, and are not 105+ dB SPL monsters, but when used within their limits & crossed over to woofers via surround processor's bass management utility are quite suitable for small home cinema, and definitely do not exhibit the above described "quirk"
There are a few designs for HT enclosures for CHR70 to consider at:
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/MT-HT-Appendix-191209.pdf
These were originally penned for the prior version of this driver, but with a little prodding and private messages, Dave could likely update the math if he's not already done so for the 70.3.
I'm quite happy using Alpair7s in a room approx 15x24ft - XO at 110L/R & 120 center/surrounds(Alpair 6M)
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thanks karmik .
i'm easy on speaker size , i'll be building a wide av rack at the same time to match the speakers which the centre will sit on and if i dont use floor standers at the rear then i've no problem building stands .
sounds like the chr70 would be more suitable then , think its the the first model on special offer at blue planet . although i'm not limiting myself to either driver if there are any other suggestions ?
i've no need for huge volume as i don't really listen that loud to be honest but i would like to be able to use the set up with the subwoofers switched off when listening at lower volumes and still maintain a decent level of bass if possible . a single driver enclosure all round gives me a few more options as well as saving some extra cash towards a new receiver .
steve
i'm easy on speaker size , i'll be building a wide av rack at the same time to match the speakers which the centre will sit on and if i dont use floor standers at the rear then i've no problem building stands .
sounds like the chr70 would be more suitable then , think its the the first model on special offer at blue planet . although i'm not limiting myself to either driver if there are any other suggestions ?
i've no need for huge volume as i don't really listen that loud to be honest but i would like to be able to use the set up with the subwoofers switched off when listening at lower volumes and still maintain a decent level of bass if possible . a single driver enclosure all round gives me a few more options as well as saving some extra cash towards a new receiver .
steve
Hi,
I'd consider making a pair of ported test boxes and see how they do in the positions you have in mind. Corner loading can make ported boxes sound boomy, so try blocking the ports - this would give a shallower rolloff from a higher frequency, which may well sit better with the bass boost corners provide.
Once you've found a result you're happy with, make your more permanent cabinets.
For the centre speaker, I'd consider either a single driver cabinet, or two drivers side-by-side (as close as possible), and cross one of them over to avoid interference between them at high frequencies.
What do you have in mind for subwoofers?
I'd consider making a pair of ported test boxes and see how they do in the positions you have in mind. Corner loading can make ported boxes sound boomy, so try blocking the ports - this would give a shallower rolloff from a higher frequency, which may well sit better with the bass boost corners provide.
Once you've found a result you're happy with, make your more permanent cabinets.
For the centre speaker, I'd consider either a single driver cabinet, or two drivers side-by-side (as close as possible), and cross one of them over to avoid interference between them at high frequencies.
What do you have in mind for subwoofers?
that would probably seem most sensible chris661 . ive plenty of mdf out in the workshop to have a play with , although i see lots of people on here not recommending the use of mdf for enclosures where as in car audio its the material of choice for most .
the corner loading was what i was a little concerned about and i'm kind of stuck with those positions in the room , i can stuff the ports to help with this right ? i'm sure i read it one of the threads i was reading but can't seem to find it now .
what would be the recommended crossover point for a the second driver to prevent interference . i really liked the idea of an mtm arrangement using three chr70 per enclosure that somebody mentioned in the chr70 application thread but was unable to find anybody that had actually done it .
i'm looking at using a pair of peerless xls10 for subwoofers , but have not decided for sure yet .
again thanks for the help
steve
the corner loading was what i was a little concerned about and i'm kind of stuck with those positions in the room , i can stuff the ports to help with this right ? i'm sure i read it one of the threads i was reading but can't seem to find it now .
what would be the recommended crossover point for a the second driver to prevent interference . i really liked the idea of an mtm arrangement using three chr70 per enclosure that somebody mentioned in the chr70 application thread but was unable to find anybody that had actually done it .
i'm looking at using a pair of peerless xls10 for subwoofers , but have not decided for sure yet .
again thanks for the help
steve
Could be interesting wiring them, as they're 4ohm drivers. You could probably get away with using one per channel, but putting any in parallel could make your receiver unhappy.
For subwoofers, I can wholeheartedly recommend tapped horns, so long as the size doesn't bother you. Even so, their often narrow form means you can put one next to a wall and lose very little room space.
Before this turns into an MDF vs ply debate, most would agree that if you have MDF on hand, you may as well use it. I use it because it's cheap and I'm a teenager with a limited budget. In the long run, ply is probably easier to make it look nice, so consider that for your final piece.
Chris
PS - yes, stuffing the port tightly will pretty much seal the cabinet. Experimenting with polyester filling in the cabinet can help you tune the bass to the room, too.
For subwoofers, I can wholeheartedly recommend tapped horns, so long as the size doesn't bother you. Even so, their often narrow form means you can put one next to a wall and lose very little room space.
Before this turns into an MDF vs ply debate, most would agree that if you have MDF on hand, you may as well use it. I use it because it's cheap and I'm a teenager with a limited budget. In the long run, ply is probably easier to make it look nice, so consider that for your final piece.
Chris
PS - yes, stuffing the port tightly will pretty much seal the cabinet. Experimenting with polyester filling in the cabinet can help you tune the bass to the room, too.
Well, the CHP and CHR70 G3 are 7.2 Ohm, so an alternative for 3 driver array for center channel application would be to power taper them (outer 2 in series with central in parallel for a net of approx 4.8) Adding a resister in series with the central driver could allow fine tuning of impedance if deemed necessary. Of course any such power tapering arrangement has the disadvantage of some reduction of maximum achievable SPL - but if that was a major system requirement, then 4" full range drivers likely wouldn't be the first choice.
OTOH, of it's the earlier CHRs on sale at BP, power tapering odd numbers of 4ohm drivers does get a bit sketchier - if your amp is happy with just under 3ohm load, by all means
OTOH, of it's the earlier CHRs on sale at BP, power tapering odd numbers of 4ohm drivers does get a bit sketchier - if your amp is happy with just under 3ohm load, by all means
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i was thinking the two mids in series with the tweeter in parallel would be 6ohm ? i'm only just trying to get head round passive crossovers having always dealt with active sytems in my cars .
don't think its the route i'll take , just want to keep it simple for my first project but sounded like an interesting idea . as i've said i don't need huge spl and if you guys are confident that a single driver will be enough for my needs i'm happy to go with that . still think i'll get my self either 10 or 15 drivers at the sale price though as its not the only room i have that needs speakers and then maybe the final decision in ply .
lol , every forum has one of those v's debates so i wont go there , but for the price of mdf i don't mind building a few cabinets to try .
i've had to go and search for power tapering chrisb as its not something i've heard of before , again another interesting option . maybe not for this project but i'd definantly like to build an line array at some point so will read up more on this this .
are then any websites that are good to read , besides this one that would be good for me to read or perhaps a good book thats recommended covering all aspects of speaker building . i'm not quite a dummy but not far off , so any reading that would help me would be great .
size of subwoofer enclosures as for the surrounds i'm pretty easy on , the other half is good about things like this , so long as they look nice i'm fine so will take a look into the tapped horns .
steve
don't think its the route i'll take , just want to keep it simple for my first project but sounded like an interesting idea . as i've said i don't need huge spl and if you guys are confident that a single driver will be enough for my needs i'm happy to go with that . still think i'll get my self either 10 or 15 drivers at the sale price though as its not the only room i have that needs speakers and then maybe the final decision in ply .
lol , every forum has one of those v's debates so i wont go there , but for the price of mdf i don't mind building a few cabinets to try .
i've had to go and search for power tapering chrisb as its not something i've heard of before , again another interesting option . maybe not for this project but i'd definantly like to build an line array at some point so will read up more on this this .
are then any websites that are good to read , besides this one that would be good for me to read or perhaps a good book thats recommended covering all aspects of speaker building . i'm not quite a dummy but not far off , so any reading that would help me would be great .
size of subwoofer enclosures as for the surrounds i'm pretty easy on , the other half is good about things like this , so long as they look nice i'm fine so will take a look into the tapped horns .
steve
"all aspects of speaker building" in one text? I doubt any of us will live long enough to witness consensus on what that means - as only a few hours at various sections of this site will prove
I'd suggest you start with something simple for a small HT system, and it's pretty hard to get much simpler than some of the small enclosures that work for wide-band (aka "full-range") drivers like the Mark Audios already mentioned, or Fostex, TangBand, Dayton, Fountek, etc.
Steve -
I did something similar in an oddball shaped family room 14x15 with completely non optimal choices for speaker location. I went even cheaper with aura NS3's at 12.50 a pop in 64cu inch 1/2 MDF boxes, and a cheap Polk sub (cheaper than I could buy a driver and plate amp). Final location was tight to tv for LR with C below and back corners in 15 degree angled boxes aiming across sofa (on back wall) for surrounds. Sounds actually pretty darn good - not at all optimal for stereo but it works ok in movie mode and those little Aura's do pretty well - surprisingly flat with just a small bump in eq up at 16kHz since they roll off early up high and a smaller eq bump around 80. Crossing at 90Hz to sub and so far pretty happy since the entire project was like 80 bucks with another 90 for the sub....
Only bad part of the project was the MDF dust all over the basement....
I did something similar in an oddball shaped family room 14x15 with completely non optimal choices for speaker location. I went even cheaper with aura NS3's at 12.50 a pop in 64cu inch 1/2 MDF boxes, and a cheap Polk sub (cheaper than I could buy a driver and plate amp). Final location was tight to tv for LR with C below and back corners in 15 degree angled boxes aiming across sofa (on back wall) for surrounds. Sounds actually pretty darn good - not at all optimal for stereo but it works ok in movie mode and those little Aura's do pretty well - surprisingly flat with just a small bump in eq up at 16kHz since they roll off early up high and a smaller eq bump around 80. Crossing at 90Hz to sub and so far pretty happy since the entire project was like 80 bucks with another 90 for the sub....
Only bad part of the project was the MDF dust all over the basement....
hard to argue with the simple approach - the auto calibration functions on current surround receivers sure make the set up a snap - they'll even warn if/when one of the speakers are out of phase.
although for a smallish room that could be a lot of Fostex in your face
lol maybe i did'nt word that too well chrisb , i'm not expecting to read a book and know everything overnight i was just wondering if there was any recommended reading for somebody in my position ?
simples good , the mark audio and css drivers appealed because there seems to be quite a few plans available but i'll have a look into the fostex and the auras . being from the uk its about finding the drivers if available , at a good price and preferably from inside the eu as the taxes at customs are just crazy at the moment .
again thanks for the replies
steve
i was just wondering if there was any recommended reading for somebody in my position ? simples good , the mark audio and css drivers appealed because there seems to be quite a few plans available but i'll have a look into the fostex and the auras . being from the uk its about finding the drivers if available , at a good price and preferably from inside the eu as the taxes at customs are just crazy at the moment .
again thanks for the replies
steve
thanks norman , i took the plunge and have ordered 12 of the chr-70 in the end which should be here next week sometime .
i've found a few plans for enclosures that i would like to try , so think i will build up a pair of each design from mdf and see what i prefer . gives me a bit of practice before maybe doing the final decision in ply .
thanks for the help
steve
i've found a few plans for enclosures that i would like to try , so think i will build up a pair of each design from mdf and see what i prefer . gives me a bit of practice before maybe doing the final decision in ply .
thanks for the help
steve
If you are doing test boxes, you can look into fiber board/chip board too. Should be cheaper than MDF and easier to cut.
The resource I've used for some time now:
DIY Audio Articles
There's not a lot that's not on there.
PS - instead of designing my own THs, I copied someone else's. Very good results, I can strongly recommend them.
DIY Audio Articles
There's not a lot that's not on there.
PS - instead of designing my own THs, I copied someone else's. Very good results, I can strongly recommend them.
not when the mdf is free zman01 , think i've got 5 or 6 sheets of 18mm out in the workshop
thats perfect chris661 . just what i need , i appreciate that . that will keep me busy for quite a while .
i did start to take a look into the horns and have found a a set of plans using a tang band 6.5" that would fit in the spaces either side of the av rack i would like to fit subwoofers into .
just seen your sig , are yours these by any chance ? http://www.volvotreter.de/th.htm
cheers
steve
thats perfect chris661 . just what i need , i appreciate that . that will keep me busy for quite a while .
i did start to take a look into the horns and have found a a set of plans using a tang band 6.5" that would fit in the spaces either side of the av rack i would like to fit subwoofers into .
just seen your sig , are yours these by any chance ? http://www.volvotreter.de/th.htm
cheers
steve
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