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Old 14th July 2011, 11:56 PM   #1
Anchan is offline Anchan  United States
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Hello-
I am thinking to start a speaker build. My inspiration is the Tonian TL-D1. Here is the link, and I've attached a few pics that I found online.
Tonian Acoustic
The reviews have been outstanding, and I am tempted to just buy them for $2000+, but my budget is half that.
Review:
Tonian Labs TL-D1 - speakers - [English]

Having been bitten by the DIY bug, I think I can build something similar.

1) Does anyone have any ideas what drivers and ribbon are used here?
Driver maybe a Fostex FE206E? Ribbon- no idea. Any substitution recommendations?

2) Is the cabinet as simple as it seems? Would you think there is something fancy inside, or is it just an empty box as it looks? It doesn't like a folded horn or anything. I like the idea of thinner plywood, NOT ultra damped heavy MDF.

3) Just a cap on the tweeter, or something more fancy?

4) If someone can point me in the direction of a similar already proven design like this, by all means. Criteria: semi-open baffle, 95db+, similar size, no crossover on the main driver.

5) I don't have any analysis software. Is this something that can just be done "by ear." I've built some amps, and have a lot of electronics experience, but this would be my first foray into speakers.
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File Type: jpg tonian1.jpg (130.5 KB, 1115 views)
File Type: jpg tonian2.jpg (128.7 KB, 1093 views)
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Old 15th July 2011, 12:06 AM   #2
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just as a reality check why don't you have a listen to a pair of Klipsch Forte ll or Klipsch KLF 20 loudspeakers? You can buy either used and upgrade them with sota parts and still have some change in your pocket. You won't need a sub with either and you will **** the neighbors off in a big way. Best regards Moray James.
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Old 15th July 2011, 12:39 AM   #3
Anchan is offline Anchan  United States
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Originally Posted by moray james View Post
just as a reality check why don't you have a listen to a pair of Klipsch Forte ll or Klipsch KLF 20 loudspeakers? You can buy either used and upgrade them with sota parts and still have some change in your pocket. You won't need a sub with either and you will **** the neighbors off in a big way. Best regards Moray James.
I have not heard those particular models, but I have owned a pair of Klipsch RF3-II's for the past 10 years. In fact, that is what I would like to uprade from. I really have enjoyed them immensely, but I guess I am looking to take my ears along a different path. I'm also kind of on a minimalist kick at the moment, and the Tonian's appealed to me on that level as well.
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Old 15th July 2011, 01:06 AM   #4
mikje is offline mikje  United States
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You can probably get a great sounding speaker, along the lines you're thinking, for a lot less than $1000.
Check out planet_10 hifi
Also, have you checked out the speaker project gallery Parts-Express.com - Project Showcase Index: Browse Through Speaker Building Projects From The Last Four Years or the Parts Express Forum Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com - Powered by vBulletin?
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Old 15th July 2011, 02:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchan View Post
I have not heard those particular models, but I have owned a pair of Klipsch RF3-II's for the past 10 years. In fact, that is what I would like to uprade from. I really have enjoyed them immensely, but I guess I am looking to take my ears along a different path. I'm also kind of on a minimalist kick at the moment, and the Tonian's appealed to me on that level as well.

Have a look over at audiokarma dot org in the Klipsch section for a Forte upgrade by member SET12. If you were to upgrade your RF 3 ll crossovers you could save a lot of money and have a tremendous improvement in sound. The two way RF series all have higher crossover points around 18 - 1900 Hz and this brings the crossover into the mid band. The three way Klipsch keep the crossover well down around 650 -750 Hz which makes a huge difference. The three driver two way Epic series CF3 & 4 keep the crossover low around 800Hz and are also very good. Titanium tweeter and mid diaphragms make a big difference taking these speakers into a whole other league. Then if you upgrade the crossover you have an exceptional speaker that no Fostex fullrange speaker will match.
Why not do some reading then consider upgrading your RF3 Mk ll crossover to see what you think. If you get the chance to hear a Forte ll or KLF 20 stock you will get a glimpse of what the three way approach can do. Good luck and have fun. Best regards Moray James.
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Old 15th July 2011, 05:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchan View Post
My inspiration is the Tonian TL-D1.

1) Does anyone have any ideas what drivers and ribbon are used here?
Driver maybe a Fostex FE206E?

2) Is the cabinet as simple as it seems? Would you think there is something fancy inside, or is it just an empty box as it looks? It doesn't like a folded horn or anything. I like the idea of thinner plywood, NOT ultra damped heavy MDF.

3) Just a cap on the tweeter, or something more fancy?

4) Criteria: semi-open baffle, 95db+, similar size, no crossover on the main driver.
Let's get away from Moray's detour into Klipsch-ville Those things have XOs in the telephone band.

1/ they used to use FE207e which are suited to a TL (the name suggests it is a TL). It is a lot more work to make a 206 work in something that isn't a horn. The new FF225wk is a likely substitute (check out Bob Brine's recent thread on this) Ribbon is likely a bigger Arum Cantus or Fountek.

2/ it's likely a TL of some sort, but your 4/ throws that out that whole idea.

3/ If from 4/ no crossover on the main driver then a cap or a cap + choke

4/ if you want an OB, you'll need a helper woofer and you are headed towards something like the Basszilla.

Something like godzilla's here but with an 8 + tweeter.

Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 15th July 2011, 08:25 AM   #7
Anchan is offline Anchan  United States
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Thanks for the replies so far. I had not seen the parts-express gallery. Also, reinventing my klipsh's is an interesting option. Thanks for the suggestion. If I decide on that route, I'll start another thread- could be an option.

To my question #2, and to Dave's comment that the Tonian is likely a TL. (You're right, TL in the name gives it away) That is interesting. I think the term "semi open open baffle" in the product description was throwing me off. I am really not sure what that means. It would "semi open baffle" would preclude a transmission line, but in this case probably not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but folded horns would also fit into the TL category? In which case we come back to published designs like this?
Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - DIY Speaker Building, Repairing, & Upgrading

From the Tonian picture, its not clear to me what is happening at the back of the speaker as far as the vent, and again the term "open baffle" is a bit vague. My knowledge of speakers is thus far rather thin, so I have a lot to learn for sure.

Do a google search on the Tonians. People's comments on this speaker are rather interesting.

Last edited by Anchan; 15th July 2011 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 15th July 2011, 08:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchan View Post
In which case we come back to published designs like this?
You can do a lot better than that one.

The idea of a big driver in a big horn + a helper tweeter is certainly not a new one.

Click the image to open in full size.

Curvy Chang thread

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Old 15th July 2011, 09:34 AM   #9
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I've little time as I'm beavering away on a paper Royal Navy design policy in the late 19th century. FWIW though, the Tonian page has a near-dearth of information about their products on it; they seem more concerned with repeating the wire manufacturer Supra's marketing than describing their own speakers. However, their page does employ the phrase 'semi-open baffle.' Frankly, I suspect they're being a trifle creative with their definition: if you take a gander at the pictures linked to above, it would appear that the cabinet has a large rectangular hole in the rear baffle, which has been partially blanked off by a panel screwed across it, leaving a narrow slot above and below. The TNT review says the speakers come 'with a set of three port panels', so presumably this is what they are refering to, and these 'port panels' are of different sizes, which will allow the end user to tailor the box tuning somewhat.

If my conjecture is correct, then since the large rectangular hole in the rear baffle appears to be located behind the drive unit, and if it has a cross sectional area greater than the pistonic area of said driver, you will likely get a large amount of midrange radiation passing more or less directly out of the cabinet. Presumably this is what is being referred to by 'semi open baffle.' However, as soon as this hole becomes equal to, or less than, the pistonic area of the drive unit, any dipolar pattern that did exist will vanish and the cabinet will become a (slightly unusual) bass reflex enclosure. The box may be open at the base too; I doubt it, but it wouldn't make much difference one way or the other to this particular question of radiation pattern.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 15th July 2011 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 15th July 2011, 09:55 AM   #10
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The tl-d1 is availiable as a kit (on the site).
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